Israel Is Winning in Gaza
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Israel Is Winning in Gaza
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Re: Israel Is Winning in Gaza
#2[deleted]
Re: Israel Is Winning in Gaza
#3so the perpetrator of genocide is winning. Well done or turning around from victim to evil.
Re: Israel Is Winning in Gaza
#4Perhaps, but it’s losing everywhere else, including in Israel itself
Re: Israel Is Winning in Gaza
#5>But Lasting Victory Against Hamas Will Require Installing New Leadership in Gaza
Lasting peace would require some changes in Israeli Regime and military doctrine.
Re: Israel Is Winning in Gaza
#6Perhaps, but it’s losing everywhere else, including in Israel itself
I don't know that Israel is losing everywhere else. A lot depends on what will happen in the next year, its still possible for Israel to turn this around and create a better reality both for itself and for Gazans.
Israel took 2 major hits - one was the terrible loss of lives and the hostages situation on October 7th which traumatized and will continue to traumatize Israelis for many years to come.
The other is the diplomatic hit and Israel's image in the West which now seems to have stabilized in the current low its at.
Both of these are not terminal hits, depending a lot on what Israel chooses to do next and what will transpire.
Israel never had great alternatives after October 7th happened, it could have tried fighting more surgically perhaps but would have paid with this war lasting much longer and many more soldiers dying. Hamas is so entrenched above and under the ground in Gaza this doesn't really seem feasible. Or, Israel could have avoided going to war with Hamas altogether and tried to release the hostages with a deal by giving in to all of Hamas demands (after suffering a huge massacre). This is obviously a bad choice and would have only postponed this war a few months or years ahead since Hamas is bent on bringing Israel down by force. I can't imagine any other country on earth taking that option - should the U.S have negotiated with al qaeda after September 11th?
So long story short this is a complete mess but its very early to declare winners and losers.
Re: Israel Is Winning in Gaza
#7Perhaps, but it’s losing everywhere else, including in Israel itself
I don't know that Israel is losing everywhere else. A lot depends on what will happen in the next year, its still possible for Israel to turn this around and create a better reality both for itself and for Gazans. Israel took 2 major hits - one was the terrible loss of lives and the hostages situation on October 7th which traumatized and will continue to traumatize Israelis for many years to come. The other is the di…
> Or, Israel could have avoided going to war with Hamas altogether and tried to release the hostages with a deal by giving in to all of Hamas demands [...] can't imagine any other country on earth taking that option
I do wonder whether history backs up this statement. When I hear about hostages taken by terrorists in the news, most of the time, if they are released, and if I remember accurately, they are released via negotiations. I think I hear politicians talk about not negotiating with terrorists, but in reality I think hardly any nation has that as an actual policy, and do in fact negotiate the release of hostages. Even Israel falls into this camp.
I don’t think we have any examples in recent history of a country going on a genocidal rampage to free hostages. So I do in fact think that most—if not all—other countries would have indeed reacted in different ways here, and negotiated to free at least all the civilian hostages within a few months, and the military hostages over the next year, and I do think most—if not all—countries would have done so with exactly 0 civilian casualties.
Re: Israel Is Winning in Gaza
#8Perhaps, but it’s losing everywhere else, including in Israel itself
I don't know that Israel is losing everywhere else. A lot depends on what will happen in the next year, its still possible for Israel to turn this around and create a better reality both for itself and for Gazans. Israel took 2 major hits - one was the terrible loss of lives and the hostages situation on October 7th which traumatized and will continue to traumatize Israelis for many years to come. The other is the di…
Israel is now in a similar position to South Africa in the '80's for a considerable population of the world. Defending actions that others find indefensible. Enshrining societal culture and positions that for most is extermely unpalatable, at best.
I don't see how Israel come back from it's current position, even with U.S. backing. Deliberately killing and maiming children and the vulnerable in the many thousands is not something that a lot of people can overlook, regardless of what type of context is provided.
Re: Israel Is Winning in Gaza
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know that Israel is losing everywhere else. A lot depends on what will happen in the next year, its still possible for Israel to turn this around and create a better reality both for itself and for Gazans. Israel took 2 major hits - one was the terrible loss of lives and the hostages situation on October 7th which traumatized and will continue to traumatize Israelis for many years to come. The other is the di…
> Or, Israel could have avoided going to war with Hamas altogether and tried to release the hostages with a deal by giving in to all of Hamas demands [...] can't imagine any other country on earth taking that option I do wonder whether history backs up this statement. When I hear about hostages taken by terrorists in the news, most of the time, if they are released, and if I remember accurately, they are released via…
You are ignoring the fact that Hamas wants to bring Israel down by force, it explicitly said it would repeat October 7th. So getting back the hostages is only a part of the problem, there is the issue of existential threat to Israel. And this is all speculation anyway, who knows if Hamas would have been willing to free all hostages - why would it, it could have kept humiliating Israel right after massacring its population and released only small numbers of the hostages.
As for examples from history - we have the allies bombing of Germany, the allied reaction to September 11th, Afghanistan etc. Almost no one considers any of them 'genocidal rampages' although they all left millions of dead, we save that rhetoric only for Israel.
Re: Israel Is Winning in Gaza
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know that Israel is losing everywhere else. A lot depends on what will happen in the next year, its still possible for Israel to turn this around and create a better reality both for itself and for Gazans. Israel took 2 major hits - one was the terrible loss of lives and the hostages situation on October 7th which traumatized and will continue to traumatize Israelis for many years to come. The other is the di…
Israel is now in a similar position to South Africa in the '80's for a considerable population of the world. Defending actions that others find indefensible. Enshrining societal culture and positions that for most is extermely unpalatable, at best. I don't see how Israel come back from it's current position, even with U.S. backing. Deliberately killing and maiming children and the vulnerable in the many thousands is…
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