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Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

zen-browser.app

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Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#141

Post by netbioserror »

mrweasel wrote: post #37
gsimons88 wrote: post #2

Does anybody have insight into how this compares to Brave? In their own comparison Brave is not even considerd.

> In their own comparison Brave is not even considerd If their target audience is disgruntled Firefox users that makes a ton of sense. I would not consider replacing Firefox with a browser based on Chrome/Chromium. It's not that I think it a bad rendering engine, it not, but I don't like the mono-culture that has been promoted and would like to avoid contributing to it, if I can.

I still don't understand this "browser engine monopoly" argument. Engines are the most difficult part to build and coordinate around. WebKit is open source and gets contributions from across the industry. It would make sense for most people to coalesce around that single target. The browsers built around the engine are the feature-filled interfaces people care about and where competition should happen. The engine has no opinions about tracking or tabs or built-in services. As soon as we argue we need unique engines, there are now multiple competing standards for developers to target. In fact, I'd bet that future engines that cite issues with WebKit as their motivation for a fork or a from-scratch rewrite will start using the tagline "WebKit-compatible" because that standard is so important.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#143

Post by gexla »

wccrawford wrote: post #134
layer8 wrote: post #117

Whenever I read “beautiful” in marketing copy, I’m immediately put off. It’s so presumptuous and conveys vanity. Moreover, users may prefer their software to be utilitarian, and in any case are likely to have different opinions on what constitutes “beauty”. For that aspect: Show, don’t tell. If people do find it beautiful, then they don’t need to be told. And if they don’t, then telling them is unlikely to change tha…

I feel the same, and not just about "beautiful". Any time a marketing person tells me how to think about their product, it pushes me away. Tell me what it is, now how I should think about it.

Imagine having an artist who does paintings and an architect both come up with a concept for a building. Then have each explain their design decisions and why you might select that concept. Each are going to use much different language, though each concept might still be described as beautiful by a judge. Of course, you still need to craft your language to appeal to the buyer, but an architect can probably still do that more effectively. And that architect likely isn't going to use the word "beautiful." The architect's message would likely resonate with me because I could feel the domain knowledge and craft skills shining through.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#144

Post by alje »

xolve wrote: post #74
raffraffraff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Firefox on Linux and in general it's fine. Only really dreadful stuff like Microsoft Teams will outright fail. I've found that using NextDNS or an adblocker is more harmful on certain sites. I've had situations where a website completely fails until I change my DNS provider to 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8 or wherever. But I tend to avoid sites like that if I have a choice. I'm sticking with Firefox. I like the account fe…

> especially with the add-on for regex URL matching for container selection Which add-on is that? It would be quite helpful.

That is a built-in Firefox container feature. Open a website in a container and then click on the container icon (right next to the search bar) to keep that site open in that container. Every other time, that site loads directly into that container

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#145

Post by InsideOutSanta »

layer8 wrote: post #117

Whenever I read “beautiful” in marketing copy, I’m immediately put off. It’s so presumptuous and conveys vanity. Moreover, users may prefer their software to be utilitarian, and in any case are likely to have different opinions on what constitutes “beauty”. For that aspect: Show, don’t tell. If people do find it beautiful, then they don’t need to be told. And if they don’t, then telling them is unlikely to change tha…

I like it, because it shows the author's aspiration. Not all software aims to be visually appealing, which is totally fine. But depending on what the software is, aesthetics are something that I find important.

For browsers in particular, that is a major reason why I don't use any of the existing Firefox forks: they are all very utilitarian. But I look at a browser window pretty much all day long, so I prefer a visual design that brings me joy.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#146

Post by capitainenemo »

Vinnl wrote: post #71
nokeya wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tab groups again? I don’t remember when exactly, but like 10 years ago Firefox already had this feature. I was using them happily, organising all my numerous tabs to a dozen of groups by theme (work, social, movies, etc). But then Mozilla decided: “Nobody is using tab groups, screw it!” and removed them. All groups and tabs were lost. Now history will repeat?

I think you're referring to Panorama View [1], introduced in Firefox 4 (2010). I think there are still extensions that replicate the experience [2]. There are many things different now that might make it work better this time. If not just that it's 14 years later, different UI, and the pattern being familiar from other browsers, might make a difference too. But no guarantees, of course. (Note: I don't work on Tab Gro…

There's also https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1509350 filed in 2018 for restoring it, now duped against this official bug... https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1907090

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#147

Post by someone4958923 »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #140

I have been using Firefox since after 2004 (I'm not sure if it was 2005 or 2006) and while I love the browser, I wish they would invest moreso in just making it less cluttered. One of the first things I do when I install Firefox is get rid of the stupid gaps next to the URL bar. Every. single. time. It really angers me. Who wanted that? Do people leave it on because they can't figure out how to remove them? We had a…

> One of the first things I do when I install Firefox is get rid of the stupid gaps next to the URL bar. Every. single. time. I

THIS! This is the first thing I do after installing firefox. Nice to see I'm not the only one :)

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#148

Post by ikari_pl »

anotheryou wrote: post #120

Any difference besides the UI to using sideberry with containers? E.g. seperated history suggestions or something?

definitely not any of the differences that make Arc attractive (new windows aren't portals to the same tabs, cmd+t doesn't open a tab/command bar, search doesn't turn into AI search...)

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#149

Post by moffkalast »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #145
layer8 wrote: post #117

Whenever I read “beautiful” in marketing copy, I’m immediately put off. It’s so presumptuous and conveys vanity. Moreover, users may prefer their software to be utilitarian, and in any case are likely to have different opinions on what constitutes “beauty”. For that aspect: Show, don’t tell. If people do find it beautiful, then they don’t need to be told. And if they don’t, then telling them is unlikely to change tha…

I like it, because it shows the author's aspiration. Not all software aims to be visually appealing, which is totally fine. But depending on what the software is, aesthetics are something that I find important. For browsers in particular, that is a major reason why I don't use any of the existing Firefox forks: they are all very utilitarian. But I look at a browser window pretty much all day long, so I prefer a visua…

That's probably for the best, every time Firefox tries to make itself look nicer they manage to make UX worse in the process.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#150

Post by gexla »

layer8 wrote: post #117

Whenever I read “beautiful” in marketing copy, I’m immediately put off. It’s so presumptuous and conveys vanity. Moreover, users may prefer their software to be utilitarian, and in any case are likely to have different opinions on what constitutes “beauty”. For that aspect: Show, don’t tell. If people do find it beautiful, then they don’t need to be told. And if they don’t, then telling them is unlikely to change tha…

From the site...

> Beautifully designed, privacy-focused, and packed with features.

If I'm going to put in the effort to create something like this. There is ONE powerful reason which compels me to do this. If I'm pitching this to an investor, then I need to craft a message to convince the investor to hand over money. The above line is wasting space.

I get a sense that the message is either crafted by developers who are horrible at doing so, or by copy people who know nothing about the product. And in neither case does anyone spend significant time finding and interacting with passionate potential users to find what sorts of messaging resonates with them. As with writing, you need to find your voice, and let that voice drive the messaging.

Personally, I wouldn't even bother starting such a project if I didn't get to the "find your voice" part. Maybe the developers have some hand-wavy plan to sell options and accessories rather than having a strong starting point to solving a problem.

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