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Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

zen-browser.app

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Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#121

Post by cbsks »

jackstraw14 wrote: post #108
Y_Y wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe instead of ubiquitous stupidity-tqxax telemetry we could have some neo-Nielsen families and get to pick a roughly representative sample out of voluntary, compensated users. A trusted third party contracts the victims and agregates the data. Don't ask me who regulates or pays though.

> A trusted third party And why wouldn't it be Nielsen :) I remember when they sent me cash in the mail as a kid, fun times.

They still do that. Just a few weeks ago my daughter filled out their survey and got $5!

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#122

Post by 8organicbits »

protomolecule wrote: post #119
thinker5555 wrote: post #109

I've seen the "workspaces" thing in a few different browsers now. I know Vivaldi and Arc have them, and it sounds like it's a separate thing from profiles, but I don't quite grok what the difference is between workspaces and profiles. Can anyone help enlighten me? If you use both workspaces and profiles, what do you do differently between them?

One might think of them as virtual desktops.

Could I think of profiles as virtual desktops too?

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#123

Post by 1oooqooq »

thinker5555 wrote: post #109

I've seen the "workspaces" thing in a few different browsers now. I know Vivaldi and Arc have them, and it sounds like it's a separate thing from profiles, but I don't quite grok what the difference is between workspaces and profiles. Can anyone help enlighten me? If you use both workspaces and profiles, what do you do differently between them?

it's just a group of tabs. absolutely nothing else. profiles offer settings (proxy, etc) and state (cookies, etc) isolation.

it's the same as opening a new window for me. meh.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#125

Post by hoistbypetard »

layer8 wrote: post #117

Whenever I read “beautiful” in marketing copy, I’m immediately put off. It’s so presumptuous and conveys vanity. Moreover, users may prefer their software to be utilitarian, and in any case are likely to have different opinions on what constitutes “beauty”. For that aspect: Show, don’t tell. If people do find it beautiful, then they don’t need to be told. And if they don’t, then telling them is unlikely to change tha…

I don't find it off-putting. I may or may not agree that the software is beautiful because, as you point out, people often have different opinions on what constitutes beauty.

All the same, I find it useful to know that the authors of the software consider "beauty" one of their goals. And beauty does not preclude utility.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#126

Post by BiteCode_dev »

layer8 wrote: post #117

Whenever I read “beautiful” in marketing copy, I’m immediately put off. It’s so presumptuous and conveys vanity. Moreover, users may prefer their software to be utilitarian, and in any case are likely to have different opinions on what constitutes “beauty”. For that aspect: Show, don’t tell. If people do find it beautiful, then they don’t need to be told. And if they don’t, then telling them is unlikely to change tha…

I read it the opposite way:

- I feel more passion from the author.

- I value the pride they show in their work.

- I know many people actually care about beauty. In fact, with the same amount of bugs, the users of the most beautiful software will actually report it's less buggy.

The problem is when someone makes appearances more important than being useful.

But I want to give this project the benefit of the doubt.

We need more browser diversity.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#127

Post by 1oooqooq »

dao- wrote: post #57
widdershins wrote: post #55

Not many straightforwardly positive comments here so far, so I will write one. I'm a Firefox user but I've recently been tempted by Arc primarily because of its 'workspaces' feature and its minimal UI that gets out the way. I used Arc for several weeks and really got a taste for these features, so I'm really happy to see them come to a Gecko-based browser. Thank you, and keep it up! My advice would be: don't advertis…

Agreed. I work at Mozilla as an engineer for Firefox, and I'm generally happy to see this. I currently work on tab groups, and I'm curious to see what their implementation will look like or whether they'll try to fast-track our work-in-progress once that's somewhat viable. For the sidebar and vertical tabs, they seem to have implemented their own thing rather than using what our team has been working on. At a first g…

Firefox defaults lately are awful and out of touch...

gestures for reload/back/forward? really?

several decades and still not incorporating uBlockOrigin as a native feature? really?

a convoluted only-4-containers shenanigans that not even the author understand instead of simply isolating private tabs per window like everyone asked over the years?

using on android? too bad now you don't have half the settings available, AND you will not access many extension for no technical reason other than mozilla implemented a blacklist! ...oh and no access to about:config either!

i don't recall many examples because i gave up caring and have a list of settings (most not even available in the settings screen) and extension i must install on Firefox every new install which is larger than my OS customizations.... and on android i did what anybself respecting person would do and never touch Mozilla's default. install F-DROID's instead.

so, no, Firefox defaults are not very good.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#128

Post by torstenvl »

KingMob wrote: post #97
jay_kyburz wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand the need for tab groups, once you get above 4-5 tabs you are actively working in, whats wrong with bookmarks?

Bookmarks are perceptually longer-term than open tabs, so there may be more reluctance to save to a bookmark. (E.g., if planning a trip to Italy, do you want to bookmark some blogger's food recs for Rome, forever?) But worse is, it relies on recalling the text in the bookmark's title to resurface it. You might not remember the page title, but you can always scan through open tabs.

I add a folder to my bookmark bar. All project related tabs get bookmarked there. When I'm done, I either delete the whole folder or file it somewhere.

I can also open all in tabs, if I really want to.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#129

Post by BiteCode_dev »

I've been wanting split view in FF for a long time, so I'm going to try this right now

And I know somebody, somewhere, is going to argue that it should be the job of the desktop.

I disagree.

I don't want to have to create each context I want things to exist in, and manipulate that carefully.

I like automatic context. That's why I like tabs in my browser and not a thousand windows. And that's why I enjoy my split views to be inside the tabs I just created.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#130

Post by 1oooqooq »

justinclift wrote: post #112
dao- wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember, I was around back then. :) Panorama was in some ways ahead of its time. The UI was nice visually but also somewhat heavy handed / not very beginner friendly to say the least, which contributed to it being used only by a relatively small share of our user base. We're cautious about not repeating history. We're implementing tab groups from scratch and directly in the tab bar. Our Firefox View feature (Tools…

> which contributed to it being used only by a relatively small share of our user base. And that's why telemetry is such a brain dead idea. People then actually make decisions based upon "number of people using feature X" which is incredibly... lets just say "unwise".

wonder if we should just accept it as "voting" and monitor their telemetry experiment and spam the option we would like
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