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Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

zen-browser.app

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Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#71

Post by Vinnl »

nokeya wrote: post #61
dao- wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I work at Mozilla as an engineer for Firefox, and I'm generally happy to see this. I currently work on tab groups, and I'm curious to see what their implementation will look like or whether they'll try to fast-track our work-in-progress once that's somewhat viable. For the sidebar and vertical tabs, they seem to have implemented their own thing rather than using what our team has been working on. At a first g…

Tab groups again? I don’t remember when exactly, but like 10 years ago Firefox already had this feature. I was using them happily, organising all my numerous tabs to a dozen of groups by theme (work, social, movies, etc). But then Mozilla decided: “Nobody is using tab groups, screw it!” and removed them. All groups and tabs were lost. Now history will repeat?

I think you're referring to Panorama View [1], introduced in Firefox 4 (2010). I think there are still extensions that replicate the experience [2].

There are many things different now that might make it work better this time. If not just that it's 14 years later, different UI, and the pattern being familiar from other browsers, might make a difference too. But no guarantees, of course.

(Note: I don't work on Tab Groups.)

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20110613070035/http://www.azaras...

[2] https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/simple-tab-groups/ is widely used, but I'm not sure if it does the overview. Other extensions do.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#72

Post by Vinnl »

viraptor wrote: post #62
dao- wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I work at Mozilla as an engineer for Firefox, and I'm generally happy to see this. I currently work on tab groups, and I'm curious to see what their implementation will look like or whether they'll try to fast-track our work-in-progress once that's somewhat viable. For the sidebar and vertical tabs, they seem to have implemented their own thing rather than using what our team has been working on. At a first g…

> I currently work on tab groups (It's happening.gif) But seriously, that makes me extremely happy. I'm using the weird hack in tree style tabs to do this and it's not great. I'd love this to work in general and something with a persistent "current context" for new tabs.

If you're unfamiliar with Sidebery, it's similar to TST but has a neat tab groups feature as well.

Speaking of, there are other cool new features coming to Firefox - such as vertical tabs: https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/here-s-what-we-re...

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#73

Post by pjerem »

jmprspret wrote: post #30
dartharva wrote: post #24

I don't know why but websites always feel downgraded with Firefox and its descendants. Long load times, incomplete/failed loads, bad font rendering, buffering.. It feels evident that webmasters only care for compatibility with Chrome et al. It felt that it was subsiding in between, but sites have again started breaking on it nowadays.

Fonts do always look way better on Chrome. I can't explain it.

Interesting, font rendering is the number one thing that makes me hate Electron apps (I have so much more reasons to hate Chrome).

It’s to the point that I just can’t use, say, VS Code on a monitor that is not Hi-DPI.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that the font doesn’t look better. Maybe it’s aesthetically more pleasing but to me, it’s just harder to read.

I have multiple eye issues that may not help and which make me more demanding but since I don’t have this issue with OS rendered fonts, I consider this to be an issue.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#74

Post by xolve »

raffraffraff wrote: post #33
dartharva wrote: post #24

I don't know why but websites always feel downgraded with Firefox and its descendants. Long load times, incomplete/failed loads, bad font rendering, buffering.. It feels evident that webmasters only care for compatibility with Chrome et al. It felt that it was subsiding in between, but sites have again started breaking on it nowadays.

I use Firefox on Linux and in general it's fine. Only really dreadful stuff like Microsoft Teams will outright fail. I've found that using NextDNS or an adblocker is more harmful on certain sites. I've had situations where a website completely fails until I change my DNS provider to 1.1.1.1 or 8.8.8.8 or wherever. But I tend to avoid sites like that if I have a choice. I'm sticking with Firefox. I like the account fe…

> especially with the add-on for regex URL matching for container selection

Which add-on is that? It would be quite helpful.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#75

Post by pjerem »

seabrookmx wrote: post #52
widdershins wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just familiarity. I use Firefox on macOS and I always think the fonts look fuzzy on Chrome when I'm occasionally forced to use it. I spent a few weeks on Arc (Chrome-based) earlier this year, got used to the fonts, and then they looked a bit weird when I came back to Firefox.

+1 I hate the Chrome fonts for this reason. I'm surprised Mac users are noticing a difference though, I find the difference basically vanishes on really high res displays (like my QHD-ish panel on my Framework 13).

Pixels aren’t noticeable anymore in such resolutions but font rendering and anti aliasing may still impact perceived contrast and crispness.

Though, on such displays, disabling AA totally is a viable option but it will still feel different.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#76

Post by latexr »

nxtcoder17 wrote: post #47

how is it different than [floorp]( https://floorp.app/en ) ?

Every time I see a question like this on HN, the answer can be found out with minimal effort. If you want to recommend some relevant alternative you use, just be honest and say that. If you really want to know, it would be reasonable to spend twenty seconds on the page, there’s a comparison table.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#77

Post by ramon156 »

While I don't condone complaining for the sake of complaining, I really don't see why I would use this. Every argument feels very "floatey".

When I think of browser devs, I don't think about fancy UI, and blazingly fast speeds! I think about engineers who know what they're talking about.

I've never heard of floorp, and the arguments against librewolf are silly. On top of that, some of these "features" like themes, profile switching are already in FireFox. So again, why would I choose Zen?

I don't see how this project adds any value to the very mature FF, it's just piggybacking imo.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#78

Post by christophilus »

dartharva wrote: post #24

I don't know why but websites always feel downgraded with Firefox and its descendants. Long load times, incomplete/failed loads, bad font rendering, buffering.. It feels evident that webmasters only care for compatibility with Chrome et al. It felt that it was subsiding in between, but sites have again started breaking on it nowadays.

Slack video chat works only in Chrome. As in, they explicitly check for non-Chrome browsers and say “Nope. We won’t even let you try”.

When I saw that, I thought, “Yep. We’ve come full-circle.” Chrome really is the new IE.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#79

Post by nokeya »

dao- wrote: post #69
nokeya wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tab groups again? I don’t remember when exactly, but like 10 years ago Firefox already had this feature. I was using them happily, organising all my numerous tabs to a dozen of groups by theme (work, social, movies, etc). But then Mozilla decided: “Nobody is using tab groups, screw it!” and removed them. All groups and tabs were lost. Now history will repeat?

I remember, I was around back then. :) Panorama was in some ways ahead of its time. The UI was nice visually but also somewhat heavy handed / not very beginner friendly to say the least, which contributed to it being used only by a relatively small share of our user base. We're cautious about not repeating history. We're implementing tab groups from scratch and directly in the tab bar. Our Firefox View feature (Tools…

It was used by advanced users. And what advanced users do? Disable telemetry;) So, I suppose the share was a little bigger but not that much.

Re: Zen, a Arc-like open-source browser based on the Firefox engine

#80

Post by tcsenpai »

I used Arc a lot back when I used MacOS. Was definitely a pleasing experience. I missed it a lot since I switched to Linux/Firefox. I just set up Zen with all my extensions and bookmarks, it behaves very well: let's see if it stands the trial of time, but very nice work. I like the UI
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