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Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

practical.engineering

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Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#211

Post by gustavus »

p_j_w wrote: post #205
pc86 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you think the alternative is. The US is huge compared to any similarly developed country. Is the answer huge cities right next to thousands of square miles of untouched nature? That hasn't happened in any society on the planet. It sounds like you just want everyone to live in a city and take public transit everywhere but cities are awful for your mental health[0] and most people in the US do not wan…

>I'm not sure what you think the alternative is. We could start by making people who choose rural or suburban life pay the costs of such a life rather than foisting them on everyone else. Roads should either be toll roads or entirely paid for by gas taxes and vehicle registration costs. Gas taxes should have to include the cost of removing the pollutants from the environment.

Setting aside the shocking myopia of this comment (it turns out most of your food that magically appears in grocery stores comes from those useless rural yokels that use these roads)

A major driver of the interstate highway project was military in consideration because of the importance of logistics in being able to move troops around the country.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#212

Post by onecommentman »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #195
lelandbatey wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US being huge has no bearing on the requirement that I have to own a car to get to work every day, or to go to the grocery store, or to take kids to school. I live in a more suburban area than I used to and having to pilot a huge deadly vehicle everywhere is vastly more stressful than just walking to handle my groceries. Note that the study you link to there is from 1994 and only controlled for the following crit…

Most Americans vote with their wallets and feet. They don't want dense apartment living and the majority run from it as soon as they can afford it. It is usually possible to rent small apartments near work in most metro areas, but instead they prefer 3000sqft places to 600sqft and supermarkets to corner stores. There is a huge amount that would have to change about the American dream and esthetic desires to enable ca…

The one thing you can count on based on decades of experience living with the anti car crowd is they are uniquely ill-equipped to change the hearts and minds of the average American. Their Modus Operandi is shrill hectoring about how the lifestyle of the average American is a “problem”, when the average American is either quite satisfied with their situation or actually aspire to the “problematic” low density lifestyle. When that argument fails, they devolve to an apocalyptic vision of social collapse unless their vision wins. Hearts and minds? Yeah, US in Afghanistan all over again…

Neither of these anti car strategies will ever gain traction with any but the youngest, most easily duped Americans, who are already stuck in high density housing for a combination of economic and career trajectory reasons. The approach America has taken for many decades with these young people is “they’ll outgrow it”. And they do, when children arrive and these young people, as their parents and grandparents before them, aspire to that “better family life” that low density housing affords.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#213

Post by vel0city »

cozzyd wrote: post #202
s1artibartfast wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans vote with their wallets and feet. They don't want dense apartment living and the majority run from it as soon as they can afford it. It is usually possible to rent small apartments near work in most metro areas, but instead they prefer 3000sqft places to 600sqft and supermarkets to corner stores. There is a huge amount that would have to change about the American dream and esthetic desires to enable ca…

Yes, this is why San Francisco, Boston and NYC have the cheapest rents in the US.

Sure, there's more demand than there is supply at the moment for sense urban areas. But in the end, most Americans don't choose to live in denser areas even if it's more affordable than NYC and SF.

I do agree we should build more density, but there is also still a large amount of convincing people to actually allow it and move there.

It's not like these zoning laws just appeared on their own one day. People vote for these things. People show up to city halls and fight densification. People fight against transit, they don't want those people coming in to their nice quiet neighborhoods and the undesirables in their apartments.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#214

Post by nayuki »

gustavus wrote: post #211
p_j_w wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not sure what you think the alternative is. We could start by making people who choose rural or suburban life pay the costs of such a life rather than foisting them on everyone else. Roads should either be toll roads or entirely paid for by gas taxes and vehicle registration costs. Gas taxes should have to include the cost of removing the pollutants from the environment.

Setting aside the shocking myopia of this comment (it turns out most of your food that magically appears in grocery stores comes from those useless rural yokels that use these roads) A major driver of the interstate highway project was military in consideration because of the importance of logistics in being able to move troops around the country.

> your food that magically appears in grocery stores comes from those useless rural yokels that use these roads

That's fine. Roll those costs into the price of food. That way, the amount of road tax you pay is proportional to how much goods and services you consume.

Meanwhile, the status quo is that everyone pays into the road system regardless of how much or little they use it - even if they don't own a car.

Roads have to get paid for no matter what. The only choice we have as a society is between taxing everyone versus taxing only the users.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#215

Post by nayuki »

annexrichmond wrote: post #162
xyst wrote: post #90

It’s a shame this country is so obsessed with cars. There’s so much land yet we devote it to destroying lush ecosystems (that help reduce effects of Mother Nature) and replacing it with massive highway projects that end up costing everyone more in taxes/indefinite maintenance costs. Then the effect is 10X’d when useless suburbs are built. More car dependence. More time spent on roads. Traffic slows to a halt as subur…

I see this "induced demand" critique a lot, and I am curious - if it's wrong, how is it different than adding housing to a region to make it cheaper?

Oh The Urbanity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7FB_xI-U6w , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wlld3Z9wRc

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#216

Post by onecommentman »

cozzyd wrote: post #202
s1artibartfast wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans vote with their wallets and feet. They don't want dense apartment living and the majority run from it as soon as they can afford it. It is usually possible to rent small apartments near work in most metro areas, but instead they prefer 3000sqft places to 600sqft and supermarkets to corner stores. There is a huge amount that would have to change about the American dream and esthetic desires to enable ca…

Yes, this is why San Francisco, Boston and NYC have the cheapest rents in the US.

No, it is why 60% of Americans live in single family detached homes, not including the additional 10% who live in manufactured homes or single family attached. Not factoring in latent demand, or those who are in high-density living for reasons beyond their control, e.g. assisted living, college dorms, military, that should be excluded from the calculations.

San Francisco 2024 growth rate is minus 2.4 percent. NYC 2024 growth rate minus 2.0. Boston minus 1.0 percent. High rent is more likely the result of NYC, SF and Boston renters being on the bleeding edge of rent setting software. Lucky them.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#217

Post by s1artibartfast »

cozzyd wrote: post #202
s1artibartfast wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans vote with their wallets and feet. They don't want dense apartment living and the majority run from it as soon as they can afford it. It is usually possible to rent small apartments near work in most metro areas, but instead they prefer 3000sqft places to 600sqft and supermarkets to corner stores. There is a huge amount that would have to change about the American dream and esthetic desires to enable ca…

Yes, this is why San Francisco, Boston and NYC have the cheapest rents in the US.

Wait until you see the rental prices for large 2000sqft single family homes within driving distance.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#218

Post by vel0city »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #168
DidYaWipe wrote: post #139

"the worst symbol of our car-obsessed culture" Nothing against the article, which covers an interesting topic. But this refrain gets tiresome, the railing against our "car obsession." We have a big-ass country. We like to move about it. Many of us don't want or need to live on top of each other. That is all.

> We have a big-ass country. We like to move about it. Many of us don't want or need to live on top of each other. That is all. Japan is about the size of the entire Eastern Seaboard. Japan has safe, fast, comfortable and competitively-priced high-speed rail through highly mountainous, earthquake-prone terrain. What's the USA's excuse? No one is asking for a 4500 km-long railway from Los Angeles to New York. But a 15…

It's like you didn't even bother taking a glance before posting so many falsehoods.

> not even a 700 km-long one between Washington DC, New York, and Boston (where many people arguably 'live on top of each other' already).

https://www.amtrak.com/acela-train

> Acela offers downtown to downtown service between Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, DC, and other intermediate cities.

> But a 1500 km-long one from Atlanta to Boston? Nope, can't do.

https://www.amtrak.com/crescent-train

> Convenient trips from the Big Apple to the Big Easy. With service from New York City to New Orleans, the Crescent gives travelers a unique window to the beauty and heritage of the American South. You can tour Monticello or enjoy a wine tasting in the charming Virginia college town of Charlottesville. Or enjoy a stroll through the vibrant shopping and dining scene of Underground Atlanta. As you travel further south, you'll reach New Orleans, where you never run out of things to do. From jazz clubs to Cajun restaurants to Mississippi riverboat rides, the city was simply built to entertain.

So you'll have to change trains in NY to get to Boston, but one can definitely go from Atlanta to Boston by train.

In the end though, practically nobody would take a train from Atlanta to Boston. Even if you made it 200mph HSR, a direct flight would still be faster. And until both ends of that journey really make the city more walkable you're probably going to want to rent a car at your destination anyways so being at an airport at the edge of town versus the train station closer to downtown it doesn't make enough impact for most people.

Don't gete wrong I'm generally pro-train for good city pairs, but chances are I'd never take a train from say Dallas to Phoenix or Denver or Chicago. Flying will just practically always be faster. I'd take one to Houston or Austin or San Antonio though.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#219

Post by jimt1234 »

fooqux wrote: post #182
deegles wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas is the America of America.

For me, this will always be Las Vegas. Walking the strip my first time while at a conference was enlightening. Seeing all the American tropes that I'd seen in foreign media within a square kilometer and with my own eyes left me speechless.

To be clear, The Strip is nothing like living in Las Vegas. Nothing. Las Vegas, outside The Strip, is basically Phoenix, except there's video poker machines in the grocery stores.

Re: Why are Texas interchanges so tall?

#220

Post by arthurbrown »

jcfrei wrote: post #120
xyst wrote: post #90

It’s a shame this country is so obsessed with cars. There’s so much land yet we devote it to destroying lush ecosystems (that help reduce effects of Mother Nature) and replacing it with massive highway projects that end up costing everyone more in taxes/indefinite maintenance costs. Then the effect is 10X’d when useless suburbs are built. More car dependence. More time spent on roads. Traffic slows to a halt as subur…

The US Highway building industry is in many ways a form of a state run social system. First of all the road construction and maintenance uses a huge amount of tax dollars and redistributes it to lower class construction site and road maintenance workers and some engineering bureaus. Secondly it gives everybody equal (highway) transportation access by continuously expanding capacity on existing roads and building new…

Can't this line of reasoning be applied to any transport infrastructure?
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