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MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

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Re: MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

#91

Post by xbar »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #87
mullingitover wrote: post #78

I wonder how far California could go on its own in destroying the journal cartels. They really are a parasitic racket, and I don't think the average voter understand how bad it really is. I feel like one basic ballot measure to the effect of "All state funded research shall be released to the public domain, and all prior contract terms to the contrary are hereby void" might be enough to knock over the first domino, h…

would that be unconstitutional violation of ex post facto? I'm not lawyer, so that question is one i don't know how to even approach.

There are laws that make contract clauses illegal/unenforceable. Think right to work.

Re: MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

#92

Post by j_maffe »

calf wrote: post #85
PopePompus wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But sci-hub stopped adding new articles years ago. It's significantly less useful than it used to be.

They did? Is there any alternative nowadays?

Annas-Archive, Nexus/Z-lib

Re: MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

#93

Post by Loughla »

burningChrome wrote: post #89
mullingitover wrote: post #78

I wonder how far California could go on its own in destroying the journal cartels. They really are a parasitic racket, and I don't think the average voter understand how bad it really is. I feel like one basic ballot measure to the effect of "All state funded research shall be released to the public domain, and all prior contract terms to the contrary are hereby void" might be enough to knock over the first domino, h…

>> I don't think the average voter understand how bad it really is. Unless you're in academia, you'd have no idea. I spent a few years in academia while pursuing my Masters. Dropped out for various reasons and never had any idea this was such a huge thing - mainly because as a university student, you just always had access. I got a small glimpse when I got a job a few years later working for a rather large legal publ…

I think it's because not a lot of professions access these research journals for their day to day outside of medicine, engineering, and academia.

It's just not an issue for most people's everyday. So it's just not an issue.

Re: MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

#94

Post by j_maffe »

pdonis wrote: post #57
anticensor wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PLOS is open-access, as a taxpayer you can read world-class peer-reviewed (more stringent than Elsevier journals in fact) articles in your preferred field's preferred issue.

Are there any articles on PLOS that I can't find on arxiv.org?

It's not about having access to more articles, it's about the guarantee of peer-review of whatever you read on PLOS. On Arxiv you could be reading the ramblings of a random person on the internet with zero relevance to the real world.

Re: MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

#95

Post by ClumsyPilot »

mmooss wrote: post #54
mlhpdx wrote: post #19

> MIT presented its principles to the publisher’s representatives as the basis for new contract negotiations. This is an incredibly important and powerful strategy, as a customer or a vendor. When everything is negotiable, trouble follows. The instant gratification of a "win" doesn't help move an organization forward. Having and sticking to principles does, with practical benefits. Trust grows and culture improves. C…

The effect on experienced negotiators is different: Portraying it as a principle, a policy ('our policy is ...'), an emotional issue, etc. are all just window dressings for what they want, and everyone tries to portray their wants to be as non-negotiable as possible in order to drive up the price they can demand. One basic tactic is to act angry about your want; some politicians love to do this one - it's a new outra…

Not quite - look at Brexit negotiations , EU had clear principles, which were obvious to anyone except brexiters, and the UK position was wish-washy

Re: MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

#96

Post by Groxx »

slaymaker1907 wrote: post #16
dheera wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish arxiv.org would have a big "Booooo" banner for papers without code.

I don't think it's always necessary if the paper makes it really clear how things were done. And just because the code is available, it doesn't mean that it is actually reproducible or comprehensible.

Papers without code are sorta by definition not reproducible or comprehensible though. And yet somehow it's not part of the peer reviewing process.

Re: MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

#97

Post by dsr_ »

PopePompus wrote: post #77
salt4034 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why lower quality? The money doesn't go to authors, editors or peer-reviewers.

You're certainly right about authors and peer-reviewers, but are you sure that editors don't get paid with some of that money?

Yes. The "editors" for most such publications do not edit, they make publishing decisions.

Copy-editors are expensive, and paid for by the researchers, not the journals.

Re: MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

#98

Post by daemonologist »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #87
mullingitover wrote: post #78

I wonder how far California could go on its own in destroying the journal cartels. They really are a parasitic racket, and I don't think the average voter understand how bad it really is. I feel like one basic ballot measure to the effect of "All state funded research shall be released to the public domain, and all prior contract terms to the contrary are hereby void" might be enough to knock over the first domino, h…

would that be unconstitutional violation of ex post facto? I'm not lawyer, so that question is one i don't know how to even approach.

I believe ex post facto in the US only applies to criminal cases. Retroactive civil regulations are not restricted (at least by the federal constitution).

https://www.oyez.org/cases/1789-1850/3us386

Re: MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

#99

Post by dredmorbius »

Loughla wrote: post #93
burningChrome wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I don't think the average voter understand how bad it really is. Unless you're in academia, you'd have no idea. I spent a few years in academia while pursuing my Masters. Dropped out for various reasons and never had any idea this was such a huge thing - mainly because as a university student, you just always had access. I got a small glimpse when I got a job a few years later working for a rather large legal publ…

I think it's because not a lot of professions access these research journals for their day to day outside of medicine, engineering, and academia. It's just not an issue for most people's everyday. So it's just not an issue.

It's an issue pretty much anybody who's gone through a tertiary academic institution should have some awareness of. That's well over half the adult population these days in the US and likely EU.

Being cut off from library access was a huge shock for me on leaving uni.

Re: MIT leaders describe the experience of not renewing Elsevier contract

#100

Post by HaZeust »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #20
MarkusQ wrote: post #2

Aaron Swartz would have liked some of those principles. This is a small, "better late than never" step for most of us, but for Aaron...it's more like "too little, too late."

Surely MIT made this move at least partially due to Aaron's legacy. I hope and believe he'd be happy to see this.

Something I thought of too, second to only a few months ago, where I remember an article coming to the top of HN stating that JSTOR was now free in a ton of prisons. Stopped me dead in my tracks, with potent thought of Aaron - may he rest.
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