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A $1 billion idea...that I know I'm not ready for

jessepollak.me

61–70 of 151 posts

Re: A $1 billion idea...that I know I'm not ready for

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing a key distinction here: - there are many items people buy on price and are willing to order online. Such items will gradually become unavailable in stores whether or not this idea is ever implemented. - there are also many items that people want immediately, and are not well suited for online ordering. This convenience makes them well suited to these local search capabilities, and this characte…

You have pointed out some of the other big problems but I disagree that any of them are "the real problem". The biggest problem, as the parent said, is that brick and mortar stores would be actively hostile to this idea.

Not if they specialize in items that are not well suited to mail order. The urban corner grocery doesn't compete on price with the supermarket 10 blocks away. Locality is the foundation of their business.

I'm not saying that there are enough categories of items that are not well suited for mail order, and have a high degree of value based locality. But this is the central question for such a product.

Retailers whose businesses are protected by locality won't be as reluctant as you imagine. Note that these will be the only successful local retailers over time anyway.

Re: A $1 billion idea...that I know I'm not ready for

#62

This is a terrible idea[see edit]. What incentive is there for any store to use this system when they're providing their data in a single easy to query location? Brick and mortar stores have custom because of brand loyalty, a large part of brand loyalty is saying "I shopped around twice and both times x was cheaper, I'll assume x is always cheaper and use them". Now imagine if every time a consumer wanted something t…

I think you're missing a key distinction here: - there are many items people buy on price and are willing to order online. Such items will gradually become unavailable in stores whether or not this idea is ever implemented. - there are also many items that people want immediately, and are not well suited for online ordering. This convenience makes them well suited to these local search capabilities, and this characte…

> But you miss the real problem with the idea. System integration difficulties will prevent the system from achieving critical mass and broad coverage.

I don't think that would be impossible. Unlikely maybe, but if the Groupon approach was taken (huge sales teams) it could work.

The hardest part of this idea is not getting stores to use it[1], it's proving that the product has enough value to stores for them to put work into it. Look at Groupon, places are falling over themselves to get involved (or were) to their own detriment (see the stories of people selling $20k of product for $1k) and with the rise of the internet high street shops are having problems. A place in my hometown that had been around for 30 years shut down earlier in the year because their business was being taken by online alternatives; they would have jumped at the chance to take anything that would have improved the businesses prospects no matter the work involved. It's not the question of "should we have 100k profit this year of 101k?" it's "should we break even this year or shut down?"

If the product actually provided value to the stores (which I think it won't, it would harm them) then getting stores involved wouldn't be hard. Again, maybe it's England specific but a lot of high street stores here are losing business fast and I doubt any of them would be stupid enough to ignore an opportunity to increase their business, regardless of the work involved, I think that the OPs idea is the problem. Stores aren't big giant corporate machines with hundreds of different parts, if a system had a good sales team and a good product I don't believe it would be as hard as you state.

[1] Technically the hard part is getting stores to use it, yes, but that's a byproduct of showing there is enough value. If there is enough value I believe getting stores to switch to the system would not be as difficult as building a valuable product.

Re: A $1 billion idea...that I know I'm not ready for

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumption is that people buy based on price only. Far from it - they still have to physically go to the store to buy it and so many other factors then come into play. Are they familiar with the store? Does it have free parking? Is the service good? What is their return policy? I agree with your main point that small stores might not like such a system but then to assume that all buyers will make a decision base…

If you're buying a $100 item (let's say a DVD player that a friend recommended) and you've always bought that item from a store previously because back when you first bought a DVD player you shopped around and found this shop had the best service and prices, it's not worth shopping around again because you're probably only going to save $5 or $10 and going to another 5 stores (which will take an hour because they're…

Yeah I see your point. I can see this happening in large malls where there's shops selling the same products.

Re: A $1 billion idea...that I know I'm not ready for

#64

This is a terrible idea[see edit]. What incentive is there for any store to use this system when they're providing their data in a single easy to query location? Brick and mortar stores have custom because of brand loyalty, a large part of brand loyalty is saying "I shopped around twice and both times x was cheaper, I'll assume x is always cheaper and use them". Now imagine if every time a consumer wanted something t…

Speaking as a consumer, I wouldn't expect to use this to find out which store is a penny cheaper. If I'm going for just one item, convenience of location trumps a penny; you gotta have a substantially better price to get me to go out of my way. If I'm going for a bunch of stuff, maybe this replaces grocery ads for letting me find the best prices overall or for finding specials, but next time I'm probably shopping whe…

Perfect examples, thanks!

Re: A $1 billion idea...that I know I'm not ready for

#65

I talked about something like this years ago to my sister, who actually owns a retail store. As most people indicated, stores do not want to let anyone else know what their inventories are, especially customers. But also, depending on the type of store you are, inventories are not as tight as you would think. Stores have a general idea of how much inventory they have on hand, but they never have an exact amount. And…

This is very likely true today. But things will evolve. There are many variables to consider: - Competition between shops - product brand and quality - proximity to clients (consider raise of petrol price) - associate shop brand with product (locate closest starbuck, not only coffee shop)

This is certainly not an original idea and I'm not sure how it could be possible to become a leader in it. Users need a map to locate the shops. So the map is a key component here.

Re: A $1 billion idea...that I know I'm not ready for

#66

This is a terrible idea[see edit]. What incentive is there for any store to use this system when they're providing their data in a single easy to query location? Brick and mortar stores have custom because of brand loyalty, a large part of brand loyalty is saying "I shopped around twice and both times x was cheaper, I'll assume x is always cheaper and use them". Now imagine if every time a consumer wanted something t…

Speaking as a consumer, I wouldn't expect to use this to find out which store is a penny cheaper. If I'm going for just one item, convenience of location trumps a penny; you gotta have a substantially better price to get me to go out of my way. If I'm going for a bunch of stuff, maybe this replaces grocery ads for letting me find the best prices overall or for finding specials, but next time I'm probably shopping whe…

There are a few examples of purchasing:

1. Heading to a grocery store with a list of items that you frequently buy that are priced at similar prices at every store.

2. Going to a store to purchase a specific item

3. Going to a store to find an item

For case #1 it's most likely that you're shopping at a place that is already competing for the lowest price point (places like Walmart and Target) so this application would be useless to you; however these stores already engage in the sort of activity the OP discusses.

For case #2 if it's an item you've purchased previously you probably have a "favourite" store, one that you used previously and had a good experience with so naturally you go to this store. If this is an independent store they might have the item for $5 more than another store of a similar type, but because you've used this store before and because it has always been cheaper on previous occasions you bet that extra $5 against the time investment of finding if it is cheaper elsewhere (which isn't guaranteed) and go with the "safe" option.

If in case #2 you didn't have to consider your previous purchases, if you could just type in the product into your phone and be told (without doubt) that the product is $10 cheaper at a store across the street from your normal store most people would take that; it's $10 that would be saved by walking across the street, it would be stupid not to, right?

So now you have a situation where in case #2 any store that stocks an item (HP Printer, for example) is required to stock it at the lowest price because if they don't and a competitor is within 2 blocks (the "distance of $10") people will just go there instead. So now where is the value to the retailer? They enable themselves to be pitted against their competitors, thus requiring they lower their margins and inevitably lose out to bigger stores that can work with lower margins.

In example #3 the same situation occurs, you enter a store and locate the item that you want, enter it into your phone and get told exactly where it can be acquired and at what price; if the store that has it cheapest is 2 blocks away and the price difference is $15 why not go over to the other store and save the $15? That store just lost a sale because of the system.

Almost everyone that I know (I'm not from a rich background) would absolutely walk over the street to save $15, that's a non-neglible amount of money to quite a large portion of consumers. Sure if every other store has the item cheaper but it's only $0.25 difference people probably aren't going to go to another store, but then it becomes a race to the bottom. Wonderful for the consumers, awful for the retailer.

What incentive is there for a retailer to force themselves to reduce their own margins? Currently purchasing an item in a retail store is a gamble on whether or not you'll pay the lowest price (unless you spend time researching every stores pricing), stores make money because of this. Currently it's a matter of taking a consumer, showing them a product and convincing them to purchase, if this system existed it would have an extra step: convince them to purchase at that particular store.

Re: A $1 billion idea...that I know I'm not ready for

#68
Why giving the software for free? Do you have any idea how complex is managing retail inventories doing proper cost analysis and stuff? There are companies doing only that. What makes you think that you will be able to do than and sell it for free?

The real thing here is that finally, even if only in part, a software for business use has come to the HN first page. It would be cool to focus on that for once...

Re: A $1 billion idea...that I know I'm not ready for

#69

I talked about something like this years ago to my sister, who actually owns a retail store. As most people indicated, stores do not want to let anyone else know what their inventories are, especially customers. But also, depending on the type of store you are, inventories are not as tight as you would think. Stores have a general idea of how much inventory they have on hand, but they never have an exact amount. And…

> they don't waste a lot of time making sure their inventory is extremely accurate.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this one of the reasons why Wal-Mart became so successful? They could track their inventory very accurately.

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