Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The broligarchs are trying to have their way

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 58 posts

Re: The broligarchs are trying to have their way

#41

Post by trilbyglens »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #10

What I find most frightening is the trick Musk played on regular investors via his pay package that is now worth tens of billions. Multiple times more than what Tesla earns per year. No regular investor digs into this kind of company details. Nor do they understand the risk reward mechanics at play. And they shouldn't have to. If the stock market gets played with unusual contracts like this one, regular investors wil…

Everyone will get cheated out of the value created by AI unless collective action is taken. Value extraction is the USP of AI.

Re: The broligarchs are trying to have their way

#42

Post by trilbyglens »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #40
hi-v-rocknroll wrote: post #33

At least it's clear now: It's not about blue or red, it's all about who has the green vs. everyone else. "There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat. Republicans are a bit stupider, more rigid, more doctrinaire in their laissez-faire capitalism than the Democrats, who are cuter, prettier, a bit more corrupt — until recently … and more willing…

I feel like this quote stopped being as true as it once was around the Trump era. The blatant authoritarianism among Republicans is something else.

Not without a sea change in the democratic establishment it won't.

Re: The broligarchs are trying to have their way

#43

Post by trilbyglens »

ruok_throwaway wrote: post #14
rndmize wrote: post #12

[flagged]

To a reasonably informed outsider the entire US political system looks like a cynical dirty circus. I have no horse in the political race; I only wish for the US to be strong, since I see it as a shining beacon for many good in the world. That said, you mentioned the ridiculousness of one side, with completely ignoring what has happened on the other. So let me list some of the hard to believe details regarding that o…

Tbh the entire primary process is very skewed by the democratic machine. The outcome of the primary is only window dressing on what is essentially an anointment process.

It definitely is rigged, and those with the power to fix it have a vested interest in keeping it exactly as it is.

Re: The broligarchs are trying to have their way

#44

Post by Eddy_Viscosity2 »

klipt wrote: post #16
Llamamoe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the stock market gets played with unusual contracts like this one, regular investors will be cheated out of the value that is created by replacing more and more jobs by AI. The only people in the world who deserve money even less than sociopathic billionaires are investors. I'd say cheating them out of their money should be free game. Isn't that basically what they're doing to every worker-class human being in t…

You realize the government funds most people's pensions/retirement via investment right? Either directly via pension funds or indirectly by encouraging people to save in 401ks etc?

It used to be that companies paid pensions. They had to pay for the full life-cycle cost of the humans that they used for labor. Companies hated that of course both for practical reasons, but mostly because they'd rather that pension money went to shareholding executives.

The 401k was originally a special interest clause inserted in a bill designed for kodak employees (kodak was a crazy profitable company at the time, and with that came the power to lobby changes to bills). But others picked up on in and also used it as a tax haven, then over time its existence effectively eliminated private pensions. In the 80s there were a number of big pension blowouts (some real, some manufactured) so that companies could offload these commitments to the government, to externalize these costs. The 401k was then sold as the way retirement saving should be done.

Investments don't actually pay for retirement costs, only selling investments can do that. Younger people have to buy the stocks of the older people who need to sell them to pay living costs. So that of course leads to growth and demographics problems to keep the system working.

Re: The broligarchs are trying to have their way

#45

Post by conception »

ruok_throwaway wrote: post #19
klipt wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't say nobody voted for the vice president, they are part of the presidential ticket. If the president can't serve, they literally become president. Hypothetical scenarios: 1. Biden/Harris wins presidency. Biden steps down. Harris is now president. 2. Biden/Harris wins Democratic nomination. Biden steps down. Harris is now nominee. How is 2. any less democratic than 1.?

No one voted for them when they were campainging by themselves in 2020 - 0 delegates won. 2024 primaries were shut down - so no one voted them again. They wouldn't have won the primaries if the primaries were held. --- The fact that you mention they have been voted for because they were the second person on the ticket that won the presidential election is exactly what is wrong with the US. They only managed to win by…

I think your premise that historically US presidential elections have been won on merit is…. Not without some perhaps very incorrect assumptions.

Re: The broligarchs are trying to have their way

#46

Post by fuzzfactor »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #10

What I find most frightening is the trick Musk played on regular investors via his pay package that is now worth tens of billions. Multiple times more than what Tesla earns per year. No regular investor digs into this kind of company details. Nor do they understand the risk reward mechanics at play. And they shouldn't have to. If the stock market gets played with unusual contracts like this one, regular investors wil…

>If the stock market gets played with unusual contracts like this one, regular investors will be cheated

The more of the market the worse it would be.

But compared to regular car companies, are Tesla shareholders on the whole "regular" investors?

Or maybe more like regular speculators when they could have bought Ford or GM instead?

I suppose there would be a lot of effort put in to blur the distinction :\

Re: The broligarchs are trying to have their way

#47

Post by nataliste »

When Sheldon Edelstein, the Koch Brothers, Michael Bloomberg (who famously during the 2020 Democratic primary debates had a Freudian slip of admitting outright buying congressional seats) and sundry other oligarchs throw their assets around, it's a non-issue, but suddenly new blood and noveau riche start doing it and it's somehow gauche and a threat to democracy, while also being outright misandrist. Selective rigor is the enemy. It's bad when anyone does it, not just when your outgroup does it.

Re: The broligarchs are trying to have their way

#49

Post by jauntywundrkind »

nataliste wrote: post #47

When Sheldon Edelstein, the Koch Brothers, Michael Bloomberg (who famously during the 2020 Democratic primary debates had a Freudian slip of admitting outright buying congressional seats) and sundry other oligarchs throw their assets around, it's a non-issue, but suddenly new blood and noveau riche start doing it and it's somehow gauche and a threat to democracy, while also being outright misandrist. Selective rigor…

Nah. There was plenty of pushback & rage against the previous ultra-rich & their ability to exert such massive political control over what nominally was a democracy too.

Selective rigor this is not. Nor should it be; it's all gross as hell & a horrible perversion of democratic interests.

And the stridency with which these folks work against democracy has only intensified. The article cites what books/influences these people have spoken for, and this is worthy coverage to consider.

> ...The Sovereign Individual, by James Dale Davidson and William Rees-Mogg. The text unironically likens the ultrarich to "the gods in Greek myth," and assures readers that they deserve no less than world domination: "Commanding vastly greater resources and beyond the reach of many forms of compulsion, the Sovereign Individual will redesign governments and reconfigure economies.

Democracy should remain vigilant to enemies within and without. It's hard for me to read something like this & not form a belief that these people are working against our democracy in ever more direct conflict. Perhaps even more vigor is needed, given the magnitude of the conflict.

Re: The broligarchs are trying to have their way

#50

Post by nataliste »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #49
nataliste wrote: post #47

When Sheldon Edelstein, the Koch Brothers, Michael Bloomberg (who famously during the 2020 Democratic primary debates had a Freudian slip of admitting outright buying congressional seats) and sundry other oligarchs throw their assets around, it's a non-issue, but suddenly new blood and noveau riche start doing it and it's somehow gauche and a threat to democracy, while also being outright misandrist. Selective rigor…

Nah. There was plenty of pushback & rage against the previous ultra-rich & their ability to exert such massive political control over what nominally was a democracy too. Selective rigor this is not. Nor should it be; it's all gross as hell & a horrible perversion of democratic interests. And the stridency with which these folks work against democracy has only intensified. The article cites what books/influences these…

>Nah. There was plenty of pushback & rage against the previous ultra-rich & their ability to exert such massive political control over what nominally was a democracy too.

Citation needed. Especially from outfits like the Atlantic, replete with invented pejoratives.

Post reply on HN