Live data from Hacker News

Because Everyone (Still) Needs a Router

codinghorror.com

61–70 of 137 posts

Re: Because Everyone (Still) Needs a Router

#61

One thing Jeff didn't mention is that due to the high CPU and RAM in that ASUS router, you can be downloading several different torrents and the internet experience in general won't be degraded. With my Verizon FIOS's router, if I try to torrent anything it gets throttled down to less than 10KB/s, and on my old Linksys, attempting to torrent would make browsing the internet nearly impossible.

Curious if it is possible to take the FIOS router out of the equation entirely?

It can be done. I'm doing it now. It's not cheap, though, as the FiOS router is actually 3+ devices in one: a MoCA adapter for the uplink on channel C, a MoCA adapter providing networking to the cable boxes on one of the D channels, and a regular wireless router. In order to remove it without plugging into the RJ-45 port on your ONT, you'll need all three parts. Additionally, the ch. C uplink is encrypted, so you need to grab the encryption key from the router (available buried somewhere in the web interface). I picked up a Netgear MCAB1001 kit and it's working quite well.

Re: Because Everyone (Still) Needs a Router

#62

One thing Jeff didn't mention is that due to the high CPU and RAM in that ASUS router, you can be downloading several different torrents and the internet experience in general won't be degraded. With my Verizon FIOS's router, if I try to torrent anything it gets throttled down to less than 10KB/s, and on my old Linksys, attempting to torrent would make browsing the internet nearly impossible.

Wait a minute. Is it the CPU and memory factor on the router that causes the "internet is slow, somebody close your torrents" nuisance? I always thought it was the bandwidth getting choked. Could someone expand on this topic?

Re: Because Everyone (Still) Needs a Router

#63
Running Linux?

Avoid any ASUS routers unless you're flashing a new firmware. Awful experience. My last one was the N15. It wouldn't even give out a DHCP lease to two different computers and four different NICs.

And, as for:

"Ever sat in an internet shop, a hotel room or lobby, a local hotspot, and wondered why you can't access your email? Unknown to you, the guy in the next room or at the next table is hogging the internet bandwidth to download the Lord Of The Rings Special Extended Edition in 1080p HDTV format."

Nmap is your friend. Find the offending port and flood it. Since the local connection is always quicker than the Internet connection, it's easy to do. I've done this countless times, and only to those torrenting. At one cafe I use to frequent I would just start scanning whenever this one guy came in. I wonder if he ever developed a negative Pavlovian response to seeing me at the cafe and his torrenting success.

Do I feel guilty about basically DoS? Really, no. If someone tries to take control of a limited resource... shit is going to happen.

Re: Because Everyone (Still) Needs a Router

#65

One thing Jeff didn't mention is that due to the high CPU and RAM in that ASUS router, you can be downloading several different torrents and the internet experience in general won't be degraded. With my Verizon FIOS's router, if I try to torrent anything it gets throttled down to less than 10KB/s, and on my old Linksys, attempting to torrent would make browsing the internet nearly impossible.

Wait a minute. Is it the CPU and memory factor on the router that causes the "internet is slow, somebody close your torrents" nuisance? I always thought it was the bandwidth getting choked. Could someone expand on this topic?

Every TCP/UDP endpoint (such as a client or a server) maintains a state-table. As you might guess, it stores the state of each connection. You can view it using the 'netstat' command on Windows and Linux.

Bittorrent tends to create several entries in the state-table (since you're typically connected to hundred of seeds/leeches), which are each stored in memory, and uses up CPU resources to setup/maintain/teardown.

So if you were downloading a file via, say, Rapidshare, there'd be probably 1 TCP (you can configure your browser to use more) connection for your router to track, and do the necessary TCP handshakes, acknowledgments, RWIN scaling etc. Multiply all that's necessary for 1 TCP connection by N, where N is the number of peers you're connected to, and the limited resources on a $60 router get used up fast.

Early models of the now-famous Linksys WRT54G could reliably be crashed by torrenting while using stock firmware. A power-cycle was necessary to get it running again. Fun times.

However, all this only applies if you're running the router in NAT mode, which means the router takes the IP address from your ISP, and acts as the endpoint on behalf of your computer. If the router is running in bridged mode, then your computer acts as the endpoint, as much more equipped to handle large numbers of TCP connections.

Edit: Formatting, Grammar.

Re: Because Everyone (Still) Needs a Router

#66
Do any of these have built-in VPN? And which services can I use it with?

I'd like to be able to configure a VPN at the router, and not have to think about whether the software is compatible with, installed in and used by all the software on my devices. Any suggestions?

Re: Because Everyone (Still) Needs a Router

#67
This is perfect timing. I need a new router at home, and my experience with Tomato in the past has been excellent. The real-time bandwidth graph (and historical graphs) were my favorite feature. Well, that and it Just Worked!

Now to find the best place to buy one of these Asus routers in Australia...

Re: Because Everyone (Still) Needs a Router

#68
I have been burned by so many routers in the past few years. It is amazing how terrible the factory firmware is on these machines. For most of them I have had to install DD-WRT just to get them working. Thank the flying spaghetti monster for open source.

But what I dont understand is why hardware manufactures go out of there way to prevent external software from being installed.

Re: Because Everyone (Still) Needs a Router

#69
I disagree with the router recommendation. The Asus RT-N16 uses a Broadcom chipset which isn't well-supported by OpenWRT. Better choices would be something with an Atheros chipset, like the Netgear WNDR3700v2 or WNDR3800. Buffalo also has some nice models. Even if you don't plan to use OpenWRT itself, it's a base used by other firmware projects, so you might want to run a derivative of it in the future.

http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/start

Re: Because Everyone (Still) Needs a Router

#70

No mention of Mikrotik? I picked up a RB750GL last week, and so far, it's everything DD-WRT/Tomato/etc wish they could be. It works as a basic plug-and-play router, but it's incredibly flexible beyond that. Check out http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:RouterOS_features if you're interested. You can download the OS and run it in a VM if you want to give it a try before purchasing.

I have deployed a dozen mikrotiks with ubiquity networks wireless cards for wireless backhaul networks covering tens of kilometres. the hardware has been good, the software hasn't always worked as advertised. I find when I really get in to using any one feature beyond the basic configuration, it hasn't worked out. For example it supports openVPN, but only over TCP and not UDP, so I end up with TCP over TCP and all the problems that go with that.

Or I want to have two access points which route traffic between eachother, but also local clients can connect to either one. ap-bridge mode with wireless distribution system (WDS) can do this, but only with WEP encryption since for some reason one of the wireless cards must be in "station" mode for the WPA key exchange to function properly. In station mode the wireless card is not an access point, it is a client only and can not accept the local connections from laptops.

The support is surly and unapologetic. If your bug is fixed, in the next major release you have to pay to upgrade your license, but probably that release has some other bug as well. read the changelogs, the users are the beta testers. mikrotik are accused of being GPL violators as well, openWRT has not been able to support recent hardware. you get what you pay for.

If I had to deploy more wireless networks, I would use the ubiquity access point products, they've come a long way. Maybe I'd still use mikrotik for a router.

Post reply on HN