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The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

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Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#51

Post by austinjp »

paulpauper wrote: post #33

I don't know why people look down on trust-fund kids. Being born smart ,as this author clearly was- is just another innate advantage, like being born rich. It's that the latter is denigrated. High IQ, or music talent, or sports talent is just as unearned as having rich parents. Yet we're supposed to downplay or feel ashamed of the latter.

Hmmm, kiiiiiinda. But if we declare equivalences without providing any justification, there's little substance:

          We should look (up|down) to people who (do|don't) have X.
It's meaningless. In order to make this seem meaningful, you could dictate some premises, for example:

         We should look up to people who have inherited wealth. 

         We should look down upon people who don't have high IQ.
What issue does this illuminate? By declaring unearned wealth and unearned IQ (or unearned musical talent) to be comparable, what can we learn? Are they, in fact, comparable in any meaningful way?

It seems an odd approach. The initial premises seem to illuminate the person who selects them, rather than illuminating any societal issue. What can we learn from your selection, other than that you seem to feel an affinity towards those with inherited wealth?

There is of course one apparent distinction between inherited wealth and inherited ability, be it musical or sporting or intelligence or what have you. Wealth tends to be accrued, while talent can only be recognised when it is shared.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#52

Post by cossatot »

financltravsty wrote: post #25
l33tbro wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cormac McCarthy? Georgia O'Keeffe? Robert Johnson? Plenty of artists excel beyond the urban fringe.

I'm sorry, but I don't hold them in high regard as artists. They're part of the "western/southern frontier" crowd that encapsulated the zeitgeists of their environments, rather than create something that transcended it. The "frontier" is a notable and interesting subject in itself, but it has only peripheral cultural value to... civilization.

Much of O’Keeffe’s work relates to gender in a way that was counter to the zeitgeist of the contemporaneous southwest. Johnson more or less embodied a nascent Delta blues, defining it on wax, then died. It was too early in the codification for there be something to transcend. His career was like 9 months long. McCarthy I don’t know, can’t read because I don’t like the violence.

Nonetheless your final point is far more vapid because the frontier is where civilization is created and destroyed. It is where norms, values and modes of production of some civilization are placed with decreasing amounts of their domestic support, and usually in increasing conflict with a different civilization, so that it becomes clear what aspects have some more fundamental truth or at least robustness, and what is simply town and gown, responding to the ever shifting attentions of easily bored patrons.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#53

Post by dajtxx »

kjellsbells wrote: post #40

Could a new composer replicate this? is too broad a question. Rather, - could they support themselves with a blue collar job? - could they support a family with said job, as the primary breadwinner? - could they do it in X, where X is the geographic location of the cultural center of their art form? Glass was lucky enough to hit all three. Today's young artists might be lucky to hit 1, and maybe the internet helps wi…

I agree, other than the part where he worked at a steel mill. But that was only 5 months.

Glass clearly had a can-do attitude that not many of us possess.

And yes, supporting a family on a single income these days is difficult (I do it), and you wouldn't be doing random plumbing jobs any more!

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#54

Post by neaanopri »

debo_ wrote: post #46

> Just imagine reading Siddhartha or The Glass Bead Game at a steel mill—but that’s Philip Glass for you. I don't know what this means. I worked a lot of "blue collar jobs" in my time, and I'd often see people reading "serious books" on break. It's not uncommon. I read a lot of Hemingway because of recommendations I got from a dude I used to work with cleaning concrete truck drums with jackhammers.

I'd almost say high concept books pair better with blue collar work. I'm mentally exhausted after a day of meetings or programming, but if I'm doing manual labor I end up physically exhausted, not mentally exhausted

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#55

Post by neaanopri »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #20
baerrie wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New York particularly this could maybe work. They have strong blue collar unions so benefits and pay would be actually livable. Plumbing anywhere is pretty viable. Faulkner worked in construction and did a similar thing. I am working in tech to fund my creative pursuits, an industry on its way to being blue collar

Not at all. Do you know what it actually takes to get in to those blue collar unions in NYC? It's not at all a "I can just show up, with no experience, and convince a business owner to give me a job" like Glass did.

Well it sounds like glass was charismatic enough to get people to take a chance on him

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#56

Post by neaanopri »

globalnode wrote: post #37
ZoomerCretin wrote: post #17

His experiences are completely alien now and not reproducible today. How is it possible to get any blue collar job at all without extensive training and certifications on your own time and with your own money in that very specific field? How is it possible to not only be able to support your family on 3 working days per week, but to find a boss willing to hire you as a part time worker for what seems like a high wage…

this is sadly true. as much as i "want" the old stories like OP to be true now (they may still be in rural areas i suspect), those times are basically over. i suppose one could do jobs like fruitpicking (totally unskilled) or other things like that but those employers dont want someone fluffing around for 3 days a week they want your life

Running a "guy with a truck" business is great for working 3 days a week, if you can make the finances work. Simply ... only accept 3 jobs a week!

You just have to be a freelancer (and all that entails), and be able to live on a very low income.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#57

Post by solidsnack9000 »

ilamont wrote: post #4

Many of my cultural heroes were ignored by academia Ignored, or the jobs just weren't there? A department head once told me that she couldn't hire any new tenure-track faculty. Turnover at the school is so rare, and when a position does open up, there are literally hundreds of highly qualified applicants. It's been that way for decades, particularly in the humanities and arts. She noted that among the existing facult…

...they are all very poor people who follow as a trade, what other people pursue as a pastime.

From The Wealth of Nations:

http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN4.html#I.10.6

Hunting and fishing, the most important employments of mankind in the rude state of society, become in its advanced state their most agreeable amusements, and they pursue for pleasure what they once followed from necessity. In the advanced state of society, therefore, they are all very poor people who follow as a trade, what other people pursue as a pastime. Fishermen have been so since the time of Theocritus. A poacher is every-where a very poor man in Great Britain. In countries where the rigour of the law suffers no poachers, the licensed hunter is not in a much better condition. The natural taste for those employments makes more people follow them than can live comfortably by them, and the produce of their labour, in proportion to its quantity, comes always too cheap to market to afford any thing but the most scanty subsistence to the labourers.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#58

Post by mmooss »

jordwest wrote: post #21
mmooss wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME, my impression, is that far more people today are in 'survival' mode - the fight/fligh/freeze response: not trying to create, build, and self-actualize but to survive, and ridiculing - as people in that mode do - art, humanities (and humanitarianism), knowledge, etc. Advocating the value in those things is now transgressive, IME. 'That's all pointless!' they say - and yes it's pointless if your only goal is to su…

In my experience, that attitude for me was due to the devaluing of spirituality and the resulting overemphasis on rationality. Funny thing is in hindsight, I didn’t realise how much my “rational” attitude was informed by the Protestant work ethic pervading secular society. It’s like we threw away the god part but kept the part where we’re all “sinners” until we prove ourselves worthy through work. Instead of apprecia…

> I was trying to prove myself worthy of being in the world

I was there too, and I see others doing it. I think that when we look externally for our value, we end up sacrificing a lot of ourselves for someone else's approval.

Is 'rationality' the right word here (I see you put it in quotes)? It doesn't seem rational or based on reason, more a social custom.

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#59

Post by glaucon »

For anyone who's interested there's a BBC radio programme in which Glass speaks about his life in New York in the early 70s, driving a cab and finding his way to recognition as a composer. Lots of interesting colour about life in a city which was on the verge of bankruptcy and yet, partly because of that, had opportunities for the impecunious artist.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b065tqz1?partner=uk.co.bbc...

My favourite bit is his, years later, encounter with Martin Scorsese who, on learning he used to drive a cab, was surprised to discover that Glass had never seen Scorsese's film "Taxi Driver". Glass replies that when "Taxi Driver" was released he drove a cab four nights a week and so, when he had time off, he hardly felt the need to go and watch a film about cab driving ;-)

Re: The Blue Collar Jobs of Philip Glass

#60

Post by donatj »

In Philip Glass's autobiography he says when people accuse him of selling out by having his music in movies and ads, he tells he got into music to make money.

I've got an insane amount of respect for that honesty.

The book was really a fascinating read.

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