Pretty much, yeah
Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?
81–90 of 377 posts
Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. With 99% of my transactions I don’t care one bit about the ability to do chargebacks. I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why?? I got my groceries. I’m not going to do a chargeback because the salad was bad. Earlier, I bought something on Amazon. Again, VISA took a share. Why? In 15 years of shipping with Amazon they have always hinteres my returns.
You leave your credit card on the table at a coffee shop. A thief takes it and goes to the grocery store. You’re going to do a chargeback.
Funny aside. Anytime my CC has been stolen the thieves always go grocery shopping first, I assume for alcohol.
Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?
#83Stripe, Block, and PayPal each solved a massive pain point. PayPal provided a way to pay people and vendors without giving away your credit card number. Square made it easy to accept payment in person on a phone, without an extensive upfront underwriting experience and without expensive fixed monthly fees. Stripe did the same as Square, but for accepting online payments. Fraud and Risk come in many forms, and these p…
No. With 99% of my transactions I don’t care one bit about the ability to do chargebacks. I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why?? I got my groceries. I’m not going to do a chargeback because the salad was bad. Earlier, I bought something on Amazon. Again, VISA took a share. Why? In 15 years of shipping with Amazon they have always hinteres my returns.
> I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why??
Because you paid with a VISA card instead of paying by cash. Hint: it says Visa on the card.
Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. With 99% of my transactions I don’t care one bit about the ability to do chargebacks. I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why?? I got my groceries. I’m not going to do a chargeback because the salad was bad. Earlier, I bought something on Amazon. Again, VISA took a share. Why? In 15 years of shipping with Amazon they have always hinteres my returns.
You leave your credit card on the table at a coffee shop. A thief takes it and goes to the grocery store. You’re going to do a chargeback.
Nobody uses physical cards anymore... even my kids pay with their toy watch when playing restaurant
Edit: Tap pay is ubiquitous in the EU
Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?
#85Stripe, Block, and PayPal each solved a massive pain point. PayPal provided a way to pay people and vendors without giving away your credit card number. Square made it easy to accept payment in person on a phone, without an extensive upfront underwriting experience and without expensive fixed monthly fees. Stripe did the same as Square, but for accepting online payments. Fraud and Risk come in many forms, and these p…
The challenger to these will solve for a different problem. Not every transaction needs complex fraud detection or being able for the customer do to chargebacks. For a 3% discount, would customers agree to use something that worked just like cash, where the transfer was instant and couldn't be undone? Then you don't have to worry about fraud, chargebacks, etc.
EU caps interchange fees at 0.3%, which is probably still too much. The 3% is mostly to finance the various gimmick programs that make naive people think they are "gaming the system" with their 20th card in wallet (and because they can, of course).
Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?
#86In Norway most in store purchases go through a system run by the Norwegian banks which have much lower transaction costs: Bank Axept https://bankaxept.no/hjelp/priser-for-bankaxept
The fee is 0.135 %
Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
You leave your credit card on the table at a coffee shop. A thief takes it and goes to the grocery store. You’re going to do a chargeback.
Nobody uses physical cards anymore... even my kids pay with their toy watch when playing restaurant Edit: Tap pay is ubiquitous in the EU
Absolutely not true. Some places still don’t even take tap to pay and still use chip.
Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would use my debit card even if it behaved exactly like cash, ie, when the recipient got the money, my only way of getting it back is to sue them or call the police. Obviously any electronic payment system needs to be secure internally but society lasted a long time and made fine progress when having your wallet stolen meant losing your money. It would be fine to require a person to charge their debit card with a f…
I understand that Europe is more secure with chip+pin, but in the US, debit cards do exactly what you describe. If fraud happens, you are out money until it is resolved. The key difference from cash, in the US, is the ability to abuse cards at a later date without the physical card. For someone to steal your wallet, they have to be colocated with you and can only steal as much as you're walking around with. As long a…
> As long as debit cards have a magnetic stripe and have their full number printed on them, and that information is useful, this problem remains.
Which the EEA/UK has also (partially) solved by enforcing Strong Customer Authentication (SCA) that mandates that (most) transactions require MFA.
Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. With 99% of my transactions I don’t care one bit about the ability to do chargebacks. I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why?? I got my groceries. I’m not going to do a chargeback because the salad was bad. Earlier, I bought something on Amazon. Again, VISA took a share. Why? In 15 years of shipping with Amazon they have always hinteres my returns.
You leave your credit card on the table at a coffee shop. A thief takes it and goes to the grocery store. You’re going to do a chargeback.
Yea I’m not proposing to replace low security credit cards with low security debit card this is a silly strawman.
EDIT: I see the general problem of origination fraud. But that can be mitigated by imposing limits and requiring extra levels of authentication for bigger payments.
Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. With 99% of my transactions I don’t care one bit about the ability to do chargebacks. I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why?? I got my groceries. I’m not going to do a chargeback because the salad was bad. Earlier, I bought something on Amazon. Again, VISA took a share. Why? In 15 years of shipping with Amazon they have always hinteres my returns.
> I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why?? Because you paid with a VISA card instead of paying by cash. Hint: it says Visa on the card.
Why are you intentionally missing my point?
Are you saying we should somehow all go back to cash and also use cash online?