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Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

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Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#71

Post by no_wizard »

xyst wrote: post #18

> In total these companies have profit in double digit billions If you think about it. Stripe, Block, PayPal only exist because of credit card networks (Visa, Mastercard, American Express, JCB, Discover) and issuing banks (JPM, WF, BoA, foreign banks). Those last two groups of entities have such terrible integrations/interfaces and fail to improve due to their oligopoly on the entire process of facilitating buyer and…

Discover and American Express are closed loop systems that may have marketing partnerships with banks but they actually issue the cards themselves and operator their own networks.

As a result, the American Express API is actually decent[0].

[0]: https://gateway-na.americanexpress.com/api/documentation/int...

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#72

Post by jnordwick »

tqwhite wrote: post #51

Yes we do. Why? Because the old people running our country have not figured out that digital money is money even though most spending is done using digital money. Because they love corporate profits more than citizen wallets, they restrict the US Mint to paper money instead of implementing a Federal payment system to support citizen use of digital money. Consequently, those companies effectively implement a regressiv…

> federal debit card

I don't see how this could possibly be abused by law enforcement or politicians. I'm in!

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#73

Post by crtasm »

BeetleB wrote: post #48
thesausageking wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenger to these will solve for a different problem. Not every transaction needs complex fraud detection or being able for the customer do to chargebacks. For a 3% discount, would customers agree to use something that worked just like cash, where the transfer was instant and couldn't be undone? Then you don't have to worry about fraud, chargebacks, etc.

> For a 3% discount, It is fantasy to think they'd get a 3% discount. The goods in stores that take only cash do not tend to be cheaper than those that do. They know what people are willing to pay and will charge the price. If they see people are willing to pay $99 with a credit card, then they'll be willing to pay that with cash.

Handling cash has its own significant cost, it's not a direct comparison to a low-fee digital payment.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#74

Post by jtc331 »

jnordwick wrote: post #64
BeetleB wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For a 3% discount, It is fantasy to think they'd get a 3% discount. The goods in stores that take only cash do not tend to be cheaper than those that do. They know what people are willing to pay and will charge the price. If they see people are willing to pay $99 with a credit card, then they'll be willing to pay that with cash.

> The goods in stores that take only cash do not tend to be cheaper than those that do. In NYC they most definitely do. A lot of the corner stores will change you less with cash. I'm not sure it is a the card payment or that they are keeping the sale off the books, but something that might cost me $18.50, I'll pay $18 for.

Yes, cheaper in the same store, but not usually compared to other stores that don’t have cash discounts.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#75

Post by konschubert »

oldprogrammer2 wrote: post #9

Stripe, Block, and PayPal each solved a massive pain point. PayPal provided a way to pay people and vendors without giving away your credit card number. Square made it easy to accept payment in person on a phone, without an extensive upfront underwriting experience and without expensive fixed monthly fees. Stripe did the same as Square, but for accepting online payments. Fraud and Risk come in many forms, and these p…

No.

With 99% of my transactions I don’t care one bit about the ability to do chargebacks.

I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why??

I got my groceries. I’m not going to do a chargeback because the salad was bad.

Earlier, I bought something on Amazon. Again, VISA took a share. Why? In 15 years of shipping with Amazon they have always hinteres my returns.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#76

Post by multjoy »

thesausageking wrote: post #39
oldprogrammer2 wrote: post #9

Stripe, Block, and PayPal each solved a massive pain point. PayPal provided a way to pay people and vendors without giving away your credit card number. Square made it easy to accept payment in person on a phone, without an extensive upfront underwriting experience and without expensive fixed monthly fees. Stripe did the same as Square, but for accepting online payments. Fraud and Risk come in many forms, and these p…

The challenger to these will solve for a different problem. Not every transaction needs complex fraud detection or being able for the customer do to chargebacks. For a 3% discount, would customers agree to use something that worked just like cash, where the transfer was instant and couldn't be undone? Then you don't have to worry about fraud, chargebacks, etc.

>Not every transaction needs complex fraud detection or being able for the customer do to chargebacks.

Fraud is an industrial level enterprise. You absolutely need fraud detection if you're accepting payment that isn't cash.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#77

Post by multjoy »

cedws wrote: post #33

This is why I was excited about Libra (later renamed to Diem.) which was Meta's feeless digital currency that was scrapped. It could have been a Western WeChat Pay, which charges no fees up to 200 RMB ~= 20 GBP. I don't see why they should get to shave a slice off of every transaction. It takes relatively little upkeep and they rake in huge profits. The fees nudge businesses to use cash (well, to avoid tax too, somet…

Cash has a processing cost to business as well, sometimes more than card processing fees.

Not only do you have to pay to deposit, you have to store it, count it, secure it and transport it.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#78

Post by kleinsch »

konschubert wrote: post #75
oldprogrammer2 wrote: post #9

Stripe, Block, and PayPal each solved a massive pain point. PayPal provided a way to pay people and vendors without giving away your credit card number. Square made it easy to accept payment in person on a phone, without an extensive upfront underwriting experience and without expensive fixed monthly fees. Stripe did the same as Square, but for accepting online payments. Fraud and Risk come in many forms, and these p…

No. With 99% of my transactions I don’t care one bit about the ability to do chargebacks. I just went grocery shopping. VISA was involved and took a few percent. Why?? I got my groceries. I’m not going to do a chargeback because the salad was bad. Earlier, I bought something on Amazon. Again, VISA took a share. Why? In 15 years of shipping with Amazon they have always hinteres my returns.

You leave your credit card on the table at a coffee shop. A thief takes it and goes to the grocery store. You’re going to do a chargeback.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#79

Post by jnordwick »

korbinschulz wrote: post #30

I was wondering this myself. If we are paying fees why is it necessary to pay a % of each sale instead of paying a standard subscription? Sure it means more money for them, but is this really necessary?

purchasing protection and fraud need to be a percent. And "necessary" isn't the correct term for prices, "can" is.

Re: Ask HN: Do we need to pay billions in fees to Stripe, Block, PayPal and Visa/MC?

#80

Post by konschubert »

It’s the ultimate two sided marketplace and super hard to bootstrap.

But if you find a way to debit peoples bank account with 0 fees and 0 default risk and The problem is: Getting merchants and customers on board.

I’m personally super interested in this topic. If anyone what’s to chat about this: mail@konstantinschubert.com

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