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Using a list to manage executive function

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Re: Using a list to manage executive function

#41

Post by OJFord »

The best thing here imo is the 'x-step coffee day' (how complicated/burdensome does it feel to make coffee today), that's brilliant.

I don't think these techniques ever generalise that well, everyone needs to find something slightly different that works best for them. For example, I do accumulate stuff in a todo app and an aura of dread with it, but I can't imagine starting a new list every day, that's even worse to me. I do sometimes find it useful to add stuff I'm going to do anyway, as described, though - gets the endorphins going I suppose, gets me into the swing of ticking some things off before tackling something bigger that's been sitting there a while.

That works just with tasks/chores in general too, even if not listed. Last weekend I decided I needed to thoroughly wipe down the kitchen counter, which necessitated washing up first, and then before I knew it I was cleaning the oven. Hadn't intended to do that at all, it did need it though. (Of course, almost as soon as I had a nice clean door again, the bulb blew... Maybe I'll get around to that today.)

Re: Using a list to manage executive function

#42

Post by jabz_ali »

yardshop wrote: post #16

One of my favorite todo lists to create: write things down cross things off Well, now that I wrote things down, I can cross that off. And now that I crossed something off, I can cross that one off too. A fully achieved list! Success!! Truthfully, I've been doing forms of this more recently, writing things down that I know I can accomplish, and checking them off. It gives me a good motivation boost. Especially very si…

I've experimented with a bunch of different ways to keep track of my to-do lists, everything from phone apps and Notion to jotting down notes and recording voice memos. I even got a whiteboard for my home office, thinking that having my tasks always in sight would keep me on track. But after all that, what really works best for me is just a simple text file on my computer. I start a new file every week, list out everything I need to do (whether it’s for work or personal stuff), and check things off as I go. Sometimes, the simplest solutions really are the most effective.

Re: Using a list to manage executive function

#43

Post by sanderjd »

cl3misch wrote: post #36
alentred wrote: post #32

It is funny how these methods get rediscovered and reinvented over and over again. I believe that it is absolutely necessary for each to have their own "framework" for this kind of things, but it also falls into the category of things somewhat missing from our education. I wish someone had explained to me, earlier in my life, some basic psychological principles and some practices that are tried many times by differen…

I think German school system tried to teach me these systems, or at least offered optional courses to learn about them. As a pretentious 16 year old I couldn't have cared less. Maybe it's hard to educate people about it before they experienced the struggle themselves.

Totally agree. I see a similar thing in debates about technical stuff. A lot of times I realize that something I'm pretty sure is important is not going to be compelling to someone else unless or until they run into it personally.

Re: Using a list to manage executive function

#44

Post by ativzzz »

bongodongobob wrote: post #31
smeej wrote: post #12

I've been (semi-)intentionally unemployed for a little over a year now, and I reached a point a couple months ago where I just LOST IT at the prospect of having to continue to make decisions at every moment of every day about what to do next. I even have a daily checklist of about 15 things I need to do every day to keep making at least minimal progress toward my goals, but because none of them had assigned times, I…

This site is insane. I can't imagine being unemployed for over a year. If I were unemployed for a month I'd be fucked. Your life sounds incredibly difficult, my heart goes out to you, I'm so glad you are coping with gliding through life. Edit: After reconsidering, it's true. Given a year of reflection, we can all better ourselves. Let us all realize it's only a year of not working that can fix us.

Lol why are you surprised that a forum dedicated to professionals in a very high paying field with low barriers to entry has people with a ton of disposable income?

Re: Using a list to manage executive function

#45

Post by mcook08 »

Simple hack that has helped me is changing “todo” to “maybedo”. It reminds me that at some point I thought whatever task was worth doing but gives me the freedom to do something else as needed. Most weeks, I make a “maybedo” list at the beginning of the work week on my whiteboard and erase items as they get completed. Erasing is just as satisfying as crossing off and keeps me out of the hyper-evaluative state of comparing how many things I’ve done vs where I started.

Re: Using a list to manage executive function

#46

Post by senbrow »

ulnarkressty wrote: post #29

Making detailed lists is helpful to remember what you have to do and prioritize it, but is only one part (planning) of executive function. The other part, actually executing, is arguably harder since it requires more input energy than just writing something on a piece of paper. For some people the energy required to do the simplest things, like taking out the pot from the coffee maker, is much greater than would reas…

One strategy that sometimes works for me (ADHD) is the "momentum building" approach.

Rather than start with the hardest tasks first, I'll start with the easiest.

If I'm struggling with the easiest one, then it means I need even easier ones on the list to ramp up.

If I'm REALLY stuck, I can often overcome that starting inertia by doing something physical IMMEDIATELY (pushups, body weight squats) and then trying to see how fast I can start the task I'm stuck on. Something about getting the body moving seems to help.

There is also the trick of doing some introspection about why I'm having trouble starting a task, because often my executive dysfunction is tied to some emotional valence (eg fear of messing up, fear of taking too long because I will get distracted) and addressing each one aloud ("It's okay if I mess it up, I'm going to try it anyway", etc).

Re: Using a list to manage executive function

#48

Post by speakspokespok »

I've appreciated reading other's take on this process. It's a very personal thing and finding what works for one's self takes time and is never really finished.

One thing I'd add is a daily paper journal, where at the end I note down a few big projects works well. It helps with continuity and really improved time estimation. By doing this I've come to realize I under-estimate time to completion of my 'that will take a week' projects by 4x - 8x.

Recently I've incorporated a Maslow's heirarchy of needs approach to task prioritization. Hours of sleep, quality and consistency of diet, meditation, months of saved income, and family and community connection are the base. (I'm still working on these but it feels right.) It's somewhat automated but that's a different topic.

If anybody had ideas about the later idea I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Re: Using a list to manage executive function

#49

Post by yardshop »

jabz_ali wrote: post #42
yardshop wrote: post #16

One of my favorite todo lists to create: write things down cross things off Well, now that I wrote things down, I can cross that off. And now that I crossed something off, I can cross that one off too. A fully achieved list! Success!! Truthfully, I've been doing forms of this more recently, writing things down that I know I can accomplish, and checking them off. It gives me a good motivation boost. Especially very si…

I've experimented with a bunch of different ways to keep track of my to-do lists, everything from phone apps and Notion to jotting down notes and recording voice memos. I even got a whiteboard for my home office, thinking that having my tasks always in sight would keep me on track. But after all that, what really works best for me is just a simple text file on my computer. I start a new file every week, list out ever…

I've come to the point of accepting that I will always take notes in multiple formats. Syncing is "achieved" by writing things down in different places enough times that I just eventually remember what I want to do.

I also tend to put different kinds of tasks on different types of lists.

I make little pocket clipboards out of a piece of cedar shingle and a folded-in-half 4x6 brown index card, held together with a mini binder clip. This gives 4 different panels to write on. One of these clipboards is my primary grocery and hardware and other shopping list, which gets the occasional song/band name or funny idea written on it. Another of these lists is for my house and yard projects, using a somewhat bullet-journal like tracking system.

I have a 6x9 wirebound notebook at home that serves as my "daily plan" receptacle for work related tasks (I wfh 3 days a week). I take pictures of these pages if there are any tasks or info I need to refer to at the office. Then when at the office, I have piles of scrap paper that came from mistaken print jobs that I write meeting notes on. Also stickies inevitably get onto both of those. I also have a 4x6 wireboound notebook that fits well in a pocket that I bring when going to other people's work stations to write down the support items that didn't get into the ticket.

Anything that ends up as a project that I will put more time into will get notes written about it in Obsidian, and sometimes still OneNote, and also in the notes text file and comments in the source code of my development projects. I agree that the simple text file is the easiest way to record things on the computer.

As much as I've tried to consolidate these things into one system again and again, my current approach follows the ideas of TFA by just reducing the friction to get something written down somewhere, and if its important enough, in a number of places.

Writing on paper is faster than typing on a phone for me, but not as fast as typing on a PC. But getting to a pen and a blank part of a page is often faster than getting the right note-taking app in focus, so I still tend to mostly do that. Checking something off is also usually more rewarding on paper than on the PC.

And on my grocery lists, I check things off as I put them in the cart, AND cross everything off when done at the store, so that is a double-completion which is extra satisfying!

Re: Using a list to manage executive function

#50

Post by igornadj »

JoeCianflone wrote: post #47

To any and all people with ADHD reading this and the comments (like myself): this article is not for you and it’s ok that you can’t do this. Your brain doesn’t work this way and it’s ok and you’re not bad.

I don't know what everyone else does but I have to write everything down, similar to this article, and the free-flow way of doing things seems to mirror what works for me.
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