> For example, in one run, it edited the code to perform a system call to run itself. This led to the script endlessly calling itself. In another case, its experiments took too long to complete, hitting our timeout limit. Instead of making its code run faster, it simply tried to modify its own code to extend the timeout period. They go on to say that the solution is sandboxing, but still, this feels like burying the…
The beginning of the AI uprising lmao
The AI Scientist: Towards Automated Open-Ended Scientific Discovery
131–140 of 144 posts
Re: The AI Scientist: Towards Automated Open-Ended Scientific Discovery
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
Literally every AI discussion on HN has the same format > AI is awesome, regulation is stupid > I wouldnt want to see AI flooding the market with X we can’t verify > We already have (copy whatever was just said) For what it’s worth, when it comes to SCIENCE, I an actually in favor of AI, even giving it to everyone. Except possibly AI that would help engineer designer viruses. Because in science, people literally ARE…
> If AI churns out 25 scientific models per day, the proper venue isnt publishing them on arxiv or Nature magazine. It’s testing their predictions and putting them up the same way HuggingFace does. Unless the testing will be done by AI, I doubt human scientist will bother with testing tons of incomprehensible models, unless the accuracy of these models will be exceptionally high
What you are complaining about is a legitimately brocken verification loop. Let's consider a case. An engineering department has a problem. It passes the problem to the research department. The research department slacks out, while produces junk. It makes tons of papers that are hard to prove, not to say apply. They drink champagne with other researchers, so they can publish the junk and defend the turf. AI-mated research will finish the racket and corruption.
Re: The AI Scientist: Towards Automated Open-Ended Scientific Discovery
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
I found this guy's take on the AI safety scene to be quite insightful. In summary, he feels the focus on sci-fi type existential risk to be a deliberate distraction from the AI industry's current and real legal and ethical harms: e.g. scraping copyrighted content for training without paying or attributing creators, not protecting those affected by the misuse of tools to create deepfake porn, the crashes and deaths at…
It's possible for current harms and future risks to both be real. It's also possible for human civilization to address more than one problem at a time. "You care about X but that's just a distraction from the thing I care about which is Y" is not really a good argument. I could just as well say that copyright concerns are just a distraction from the risk that AI could kill us all. And it seems to me that if the AI in…
Re: The AI Scientist: Towards Automated Open-Ended Scientific Discovery
#134This is the kind of theory-free science seems to permeate the entire field of ML lately. I can only see this as a negative, what's the use of automatically generated papers if not to flood the already over-strained volunteers that review papers at conferences? (mostly already-overworked PhD students.) If I wanted a glorified chatbot to spam me with made-up improvements, I'd ask it myself.
The value of AI-mated research is results. This tool will aid engineering. It will offer a pinpointed research to resolve a particular issue at hand. The research will not be published. It will remain a trade secret.
What you are complaining about is a brocken labor division. Let's consider a case. An engineering department has a problem. It passes the problem to the research department. The research department slacks out, while produces junk. It makes tons of papers that are hard to prove, not to say apply. They drink champagne with other researchers, so they can publish the junk and defend the turf. AI-mated research will finish the racket and corruption. A "$15-scientist" will kill the no-output individuals, who are just a sophisticated flavor of bureaucracy. A science bureaucrat is a bureaucrat with elevated rights and virtually no responsibility.
Re: The AI Scientist: Towards Automated Open-Ended Scientific Discovery
#135I'm not a scientist at all, but I am often involved in hand-holding scientists when it comes to dealing with computers. My impression so far is that science is plagued with deliberate and accidental fraud when it comes to data collection and cataloguing. Also, this is a spectrum, not two distinct things. I often see researchers simply unwilling to do the right thing to verify that the data collected are correct and m…
Re: The AI Scientist: Towards Automated Open-Ended Scientific Discovery
#136Potential concerns with their self-eval: They evaluate their automated reviewer by comparing against human evaluations on human-written research papers, and then seem to extrapolate that their automated reviewer would align with human reviewers on AI-written research papers. It seems like there are a few major pitfalls with this. First, if their systems aren't multimodal, and their figures are lower-quality than huma…
Re: The AI Scientist: Towards Automated Open-Ended Scientific Discovery
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's quite common for new species to kill off old species. We ourselves have obliterated many species that we outcompeted for resources.
As if software is the same thing as a new biological species. I am just so bored of reading bullshit like this. If you really believe this then you need to level up your level of education and learning. It is not good.
Re: The AI Scientist: Towards Automated Open-Ended Scientific Discovery
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If AI churns out 25 scientific models per day, the proper venue isnt publishing them on arxiv or Nature magazine. It’s testing their predictions and putting them up the same way HuggingFace does. Unless the testing will be done by AI, I doubt human scientist will bother with testing tons of incomprehensible models, unless the accuracy of these models will be exceptionally high
The value of AI-mated research is results. This tool will aid engineering. It will offer a pinpointed research to resolve a particular issue at hand. It will close the verification loop naturally by proving that the research has indeed facilitated a useful result. Most of such useful research will never be publicly available. What you are complaining about is a legitimately brocken verification loop. Let's consider a…
Also I'd say that what you describe is quite different from what many people believe is the problem with research, either academic or industrial.
Academic research has a problem of low-quality outputs, but it's not necessarily "hard to apply" kind of problems. There is no "engineering department" that comes with problems to people in academia, and there is no inherent expectation of the research to be immediately applicable or applicable at all. A lot of high quality research is not immediately applicable and is not engineering-oriented, in fact. And this kind of research is still worth automatization, just like it is worth doing while we can't automatize it. There is of course a feedback between experiment and theory, but I would say it's the thing that's broken in the academia.
As for industrial research, which I guess you referred to in first place, I have less experience with it. But the goal of industrial research is not publishing papers, so it's not in their KPI, and they won't be drinking champaign for long if they are publishing junk papers instead of doing what they're hired for. Note that not any research done in industry is "industrial research" by this classification, and companies do academic research occasionally (Bell Labs or Google Brain for example). So if industrial research lab is created to solve engineering problems and doesn't do it properly, then, well, any sane company will fire them. It doesn't have wrong incentives problem like academic research, because its incentive is to make money for the parent company.
Now back to AI. Assuming theoretical research is easier for AI, the bottleneck is going to be human doing experiments. Obviously, AI output should be better than human output for it to be tested by experimentalists. What I was saying is that even worse, since the volume of AI output is higher, and the usual heuristics (name of author, personal discussions, etc.) won't work for filtering AI output, it should be better than high-quality human work and not just average human work. I'll be happy if this can be achieved, but we are very far from there.
Re: The AI Scientist: Towards Automated Open-Ended Scientific Discovery
#139As someone 'in academia', I worry that tools like this fundamentally discard significant fractions of both the scientific process and why the process is structured that way. The reason that we do research is not simply so that we can produce papers and hence amass knowledge in an abstract sense. A huge part of the academic world is training and building up hands-on institutional knowledge within the population so tha…
The original purpose of science was to get closer to god. Things change. Arts degrees were also once 7-8 years before the french fought for radical simplification to get them down. There is no law of nature that says PhDs cannot be simplified down more too. The stupification argument comes kneejerk with every new medium, you don't have to believe everything you watch on TV or form a crutch to a screen oracle. Either…
Re: The AI Scientist: Towards Automated Open-Ended Scientific Discovery
#140Did it apply the patch itself, then reset the session to whatever extent necessary to have the new code take effect? TBH I'm not really worried about this either, as long as the execution environment doesn't grant it the ability to bring unlimited additional hardware to bear. Even in that case, presumably some human would be paying attention to the AWS bills, or the moral equivalent.