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Aristotle – How to live a good life

ralphammer.com

111–120 of 183 posts

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#111
post #107

It seems to me that this either underemphasizes the importance of happiness or assumes that happiness will be an inevitable byproduct of virtue; even if we define happiness very broadly to include things like "satisfaction" or a "sense of purpose". Part of me suspects that may be because Aristotle was likely upper class and therefore already had success and/or wealth. I'm not sure that I think his arguments work for…

Happiness and sadness are emotions - inherently transient. I have actually thought that "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" was aan error, and should have been "life, liberty, and the pursuit of fulfilment"

Happiness is not an emotion. That was the whole point of the article.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#112

I read nicomachean ethics, can I skip the article? My criticism of Aristotle: Living the golden mean, like a happy person isnt going to help when your country is invaded. This is my number 1 criticism of Temperance as a virtue. There is a reason we grind in college so hard, there is a reason why at some points in our career we work absurd hours and gain weight/become unhealthy. Aristotle's golden mean (or Temperance)…

Prudence is the virtue that allows us to see what to do in the infinite and unique situations that present themselves to us each day. This will always and everywhere mean sacrificing a lesser good for a greater one. This can be something as trivial as saying "I choose to forego the pleasure of this ice cream for the sake of my health", or something as life-changing as "I choose to give up this career because it's making me unhealthy." The good choice is always what leads to 'happiness', which is perhaps better translated as beatitude or fulfillment.

Sometimes choice this will result in a feeling of sadness. This is not opposed to 'happiness'/fulfillment/beatitude as Aristotle means it, which is not a feeling.

Also, you don't weigh the virtues against each other. They work in harmony. You weigh one action against another.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#113
post #5

> First of all, what makes a thing a good thing? A good thing fulfils its unique function. Like a nuclear weapon?

A nuke can be good considered in itself (effective at leveling a city), and bad considered in relation the person who presses the button and thereby commits mass murder.

It is the latter that makes nuking a city a bad deed.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#114

I read nicomachean ethics, can I skip the article? My criticism of Aristotle: Living the golden mean, like a happy person isnt going to help when your country is invaded. This is my number 1 criticism of Temperance as a virtue. There is a reason we grind in college so hard, there is a reason why at some points in our career we work absurd hours and gain weight/become unhealthy. Aristotle's golden mean (or Temperance)…

There's a peril in translating the Greek word that is often used by Aristotle and the other Virtue Ethicists -- eudaimonia -- into happiness. Happiness in English often maps to a transient & discrete emotional state, whereas eudaimonia is a much more expansive conception of flourishing and fulfillment that is not as simply as "feeling" happy or joyful all the time. Indeed, in virtue ethics, it is sometimes possible t…

Fully defining terms (i.e. eudaimonia) for a modern audience is essential. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#115

I read nicomachean ethics, can I skip the article? My criticism of Aristotle: Living the golden mean, like a happy person isnt going to help when your country is invaded. This is my number 1 criticism of Temperance as a virtue. There is a reason we grind in college so hard, there is a reason why at some points in our career we work absurd hours and gain weight/become unhealthy. Aristotle's golden mean (or Temperance)…

> My criticism of Aristotle: Living the golden mean, like a happy person isnt going to help when your country is invaded.

An interesting criticism considering Aristotle elevated soldiers at war as a prime example. Greek philosophy was generally done by and for noble men, who were expected to deal with war on a regular basis and often actively participate in it.

> Aristotle's golden mean (or Temperance) does not account for this.

Aristotle gives the example that soldiers should be temperate in their enjoyment of war, not reveling in the bloodshed or pushing farther than they can handle. Work and studies are the same way: regardless of your age the human body has limits that you need to account for. When you're younger you can push past some of the softer limits (stay up late, go without food, etc) but eventually you will hit hard physical limits that, if not respected, will cause irreversible damage and often put you in a worse spot than you started.

> "But Wisdom would say that this is acceptable to sacrifice health at points" Does it? How do you weight these virtues as one better than another?

To directly answer: Aristotle does say Practical Wisdom (or Prudence) is the highest of the cardinal virtues, and that the cardinal virtues of Prudence,Courage,Temperance, and Justice are more important virtues than others.

But that's also sort of the whole point of his ethics, you don't have specific rulings of what to do, you develop the character to make the right decisions for the given circumstance. In this case, you rely on good Practical Wisdom to determine what the moderate amount of work is: a wise person wouldn't slack off at work but also wouldn't work 80 hour weeks at the expense of seeing their family.

> Calling for some perfect Platonic form that answers all these questions correctly is a bit of a cop-out.

You'll have to take that up with his teacher I suppose.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#116

It seems to me that this either underemphasizes the importance of happiness or assumes that happiness will be an inevitable byproduct of virtue; even if we define happiness very broadly to include things like "satisfaction" or a "sense of purpose". Part of me suspects that may be because Aristotle was likely upper class and therefore already had success and/or wealth. I'm not sure that I think his arguments work for…

Yes, Aristotle was born into a more privileged family, but I'm not sure if it's accurate to say that he was rich. However, his financial conditions and the fame that his life's work brought him seem to have had the opposite effect of what you suggested. There is a painting by Rembrandt that represents exactly this. The painting depicts Aristotle with one hand holding a chain of gold and the other hand resting on a bust of Homer. This represents his internal struggle between embracing his eternal legacy, like Homer, or embracing momentary pleasures and riches.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#117

I just really liked this. There’s a lot of wisdom in Aristotle even if you don’t accept his entire system. For example, in his politics he says mechanics are not capable of practicing virtue. An interesting claim!

He may well mean a mechanic qua mechanic is not capable or practising virtue -- not a mechanic qua human being.

The ancients tended to predicate formally where we predicate materially. When they said 'a mechanic can't practise virtue', they didn't mean every man who is a mechanic, which is what we would mean. They meant every mechanic in so far as he is a mechanic. At least this is the tendency -- I don't know if it applies to this particular case.

In this case, it would mean he can't practise virtue, at least not complete virtue, through being a mechanic, but he could in other areas of his life.

Jacques Maritain's Introduction to Philosophy explains this helpfully.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#118
> Aristotle says that humans have a capacity to be good, but it is up to us to develop our character. This is best achieved through study and habit.

Cool. So, then I just draw the rest of the owl? I have no idea where to begin to develop my character.

Re: Aristotle – How to live a good life

#119
One thing you have to notice is the centrality of the nature of a thing, which is to say its telos, or end. Fulfillment is, after all, defined by our nature; it is a matter of proceeding from potential to actuality, as determined by our nature. What is good advances a person according to one's nature (in our case, human nature), what is bad acts against it. Telos, or finality, also gives morality its proper and objective ground: what is morally right or wrong follows, ultimately, from one's nature. Since we are humans, we are therefore persons, which is to say animals who can understand their actions and choose between apprehended alternatives, and therefore moral agents. We must therefore choose to act in accord with our nature as free and rational agents, which is to say according to right reason. Our rationality allows us to tackle the question of what it means to be human and to therefore determine what is good.

A tragedy of the crudeness of materialism is that it obliterates telos, and in doing so, destroys the only possible objective ground for morality and the good. Married to philosophical liberalism, morality becomes a mystery cult rooted in desire that evades explanation. Yyou cannot square the existence of desires--which can be good or bad, in accord with reason, or deviant or depraved--with a purely materialist universe; even Descartes had to tack on the disembodied ghost of the Cartesian mind to account for all sorts of phenomena. So you end up with an irrational gnosticism as a result.

But the fact of the matter is that even the most mundane varieties of efficient causality presuppose telos, as telos is not the same as conscious intent (which is a particular variety), but fundamentally, the ordering of a cause toward an effect. The only reason efficient causality is intelligible at all is because the relation between cause is ordered toward an effect by virtue of the nature of the thing, and not arbitrarily related. Striking a match predictably results in fire, not nothing, nor the appearance of the Titanic or whatever.

We are seeing an increased, if modest interest in broadly Aristotelian thought (which some refer to as "Neo-Aristotelian"), however. As the materialist dinosaurs pass from this earth, fresh blood is willing to reexamine the nihilistic, dehumanizing, materialist dogmas of the last two or three centuries. It was never the case that materialism overthrew the prior intellectual tradition by discrediting it. Rather, it began with the perilous decision to "start from scratch". Putting aside the dubiousness of the notion, what we can expect from starting from scratch is a repetition of the same errors. There are eerie similarities between modern ideas and the pre-Socratic philosophers, for example, of which Aristotle was very much aware and to which he was responding.

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