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Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

blogs.oracle.com

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Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#41

Post by Ygg2 »

bad_user wrote: post #34
X-Istence wrote: post #23

One of the biggest problems Java faces for real adoption amongst tech people is still the perception (and I am not sure it is entirely flawed either) that it is insecure. Yes Flash is just as bad if not worse, but we are stuck with them because they are so ingrained within the Internet. Java never caught on, and I know that when I see a Java application I let out a huge sigh and go download and install Java again. I'…

The biggest problem Java Applets had and still have is that it's so much pain to update the Java plugin that most users are left with old versions that have documented exploits. I don't get why it doesn't auto-update itself - if browsers like Chrome or Firefox can auto-update themselves automatically, why can't the Java plugin?

> I don't get why it doesn't auto-update itself - if browsers like Chrome or Firefox can auto-update themselves automatically, why can't the Java plugin?

It's better that they don't. There are often subtle differences between versions. Sometimes it causes some JDBC drivers to fail. Sometimes it can cripple entire platforms like 1.7 did with Solr for instance.

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#42

Post by brown9-2 »

KevinEldon wrote: post #30

I write internal corporate IT systems using Java. This announcement is good news because it should be easier to deploy to servers and a I can guarantee that I know what JRE I'm working with in production. I can now move to Java 7 without having to worry about breaking other systems or adding an extra deployment step for my apps.

1. Couldn't you always have guaranteed this by being aware of which JAVA_HOME was on your path or which java executable your startup script ran? Having multiple java installations on a server you manage has always been trivial.

2. Isn't this announcement only for JavaFX?

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#43

Post by sgt »

Kototama wrote: post #19
Uchikoma wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why even bother with Swing and desktop? Why then add JavaFX?

For mobile applications?

Maybe they're a bit late to the party if JavaFX is meant specifically for mobile applications. There are lots, literally tons of solutions out there, e.g. Appcelerator Titanium, PhoneGap, and others.

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#44

Post by Zarkonnen »

This is really, really good news for me. It (hopefully) means that you can now easily provide a download of a Java executable without the user going "oh, I don't like Java" or the computer going "you need to install this whole other thing to try this program".

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#45

Post by aw3c2 »

nl wrote: post #25
thebluesky wrote: post #21

Interestingly javafx seems to be 70% faster than WebGL: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/opinali/archive/2011/11/25/java...

That's dreadful for Java. OpenGL support has been in Java for 6 or 7 years. WebGL has been in browsers less than 12 months and Java isn't even twice as fast? (I'm a long time Java programmer, but I think JavaFX is the most stupid thing I've ever seen)

How does WebGL compare to a native application?

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#46

Post by bad_user »

Ygg2 wrote: post #41
bad_user wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem Java Applets had and still have is that it's so much pain to update the Java plugin that most users are left with old versions that have documented exploits. I don't get why it doesn't auto-update itself - if browsers like Chrome or Firefox can auto-update themselves automatically, why can't the Java plugin?

> I don't get why it doesn't auto-update itself - if browsers like Chrome or Firefox can auto-update themselves automatically, why can't the Java plugin? It's better that they don't. There are often subtle differences between versions. Sometimes it causes some JDBC drivers to fail. Sometimes it can cripple entire platforms like 1.7 did with Solr for instance.

Even between minor versions / security updates?

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#47

Post by thebluesky »

efsavage wrote: post #38
bni wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use IntelliJ daily, and the install experience is "devloper friendly", not exactly end user friendly. Dont get me started on Eclipse install process. JWS is awful. It is totally not the way users expect to install applications.

"Dont get me started on Eclipse install process." Actually, please start. I install the JDK via an installer, unzip Eclipse, run eclipse.exe, and it just works. Am I missing something?

Probably the part where it usually can't find your JDK (and barfs with some random error on startup as a result) until you edit a config file or set some environment variable(s). NetBeans on the other hand usually finds 5 different JDKs on your system and asks which one you would like to use.

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#48

Post by mhurron »

X-Istence wrote: post #23

One of the biggest problems Java faces for real adoption amongst tech people is still the perception (and I am not sure it is entirely flawed either) that it is insecure. Yes Flash is just as bad if not worse, but we are stuck with them because they are so ingrained within the Internet. Java never caught on, and I know that when I see a Java application I let out a huge sigh and go download and install Java again. I'…

> Java never caught on

There is a whole world beyond the desktop. Java 'caught on' in a big way.

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#49

Post by campnic »

X-Istence wrote: post #23

One of the biggest problems Java faces for real adoption amongst tech people is still the perception (and I am not sure it is entirely flawed either) that it is insecure. Yes Flash is just as bad if not worse, but we are stuck with them because they are so ingrained within the Internet. Java never caught on, and I know that when I see a Java application I let out a huge sigh and go download and install Java again. I'…

I'm baffled by this statement. You seem to be drawing comparisons between Flash and Java when Flash's use cases would describe about 10% of the use cases of Java. Are you referring to Java in the browser only? Or are you referring to all Java? In the world of non-browser software, the statement that Java is perceived as "insecure" is simply not true.

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#50

Post by _delirium »

aw3c2 wrote: post #45
nl wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's dreadful for Java. OpenGL support has been in Java for 6 or 7 years. WebGL has been in browsers less than 12 months and Java isn't even twice as fast? (I'm a long time Java programmer, but I think JavaFX is the most stupid thing I've ever seen)

How does WebGL compare to a native application?

It depends strongly on the specific application. The actual GL calls themselves, once data is on the GPU, execute at the same speed as in native applications, because it's the same hardware/drivers/API. But, the roundtrips between JS code (and JS datatypes) and the GPU could kill performance even more than CPUGPU roundtrips normally do. So depends on how good the application is at avoiding those.
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