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Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

blogs.oracle.com

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Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#31

Post by jiggy2011 »

bni wrote: post #6

The Java way has always been: To run this, click on the .bat file or type java -jar myapp.jar. And some people wonder why Java has been such a failure on the desktop. This should have been in Java from the beginning, instead of outsourcing this functionality to third parties (Mainly Windows only installer applications that sucks, and also isnt used that much). That said, I think it is misguided to include a JRE in th…

Yes, it's always amazed me how such a simple thing gets screwed up.

Here on Ubuntu I had to write a custom minecraft launcher just so that I could launch the .jar from my desktop.

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#32

Post by bni »

wiradikusuma wrote: post #16
bni wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use IntelliJ daily, and the install experience is "devloper friendly", not exactly end user friendly. Dont get me started on Eclipse install process. JWS is awful. It is totally not the way users expect to install applications.

which part of intellij installation that is more developer friendly? i just download the DMG and drag the icon to Applications, just like other apps.

Im using ItelliJ on linux now, IntelliJ is just a .zip. You are right thats the way it works on OS X and that is excellent.

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#34

Post by bad_user »

X-Istence wrote: post #23

One of the biggest problems Java faces for real adoption amongst tech people is still the perception (and I am not sure it is entirely flawed either) that it is insecure. Yes Flash is just as bad if not worse, but we are stuck with them because they are so ingrained within the Internet. Java never caught on, and I know that when I see a Java application I let out a huge sigh and go download and install Java again. I'…

The biggest problem Java Applets had and still have is that it's so much pain to update the Java plugin that most users are left with old versions that have documented exploits.

I don't get why it doesn't auto-update itself - if browsers like Chrome or Firefox can auto-update themselves automatically, why can't the Java plugin?

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#36

Post by bad_user »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #31
bni wrote: post #6

The Java way has always been: To run this, click on the .bat file or type java -jar myapp.jar. And some people wonder why Java has been such a failure on the desktop. This should have been in Java from the beginning, instead of outsourcing this functionality to third parties (Mainly Windows only installer applications that sucks, and also isnt used that much). That said, I think it is misguided to include a JRE in th…

Yes, it's always amazed me how such a simple thing gets screwed up. Here on Ubuntu I had to write a custom minecraft launcher just so that I could launch the .jar from my desktop.

You can use the binfmt_misc kernel module to configure Linux to automatically launch Jar files that are marked as being executable. See: http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/java.txt

That Ubuntu doesn't do it by default, that's just their choice (a sane choice I think).

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#38

Post by efsavage »

bni wrote: post #10
arturnt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoken like someone who knows nothing about Java. There are a bunch of apps written in Java web start(ie yEd), which involves just clicking on a link. Off the top of my head, some very popular Java apps are Eclipse/Intellij or Azureus.

I use IntelliJ daily, and the install experience is "devloper friendly", not exactly end user friendly. Dont get me started on Eclipse install process. JWS is awful. It is totally not the way users expect to install applications.

"Dont get me started on Eclipse install process."

Actually, please start. I install the JDK via an installer, unzip Eclipse, run eclipse.exe, and it just works. Am I missing something?

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#39

Post by jackalope »

KevinEldon wrote: post #30

I write internal corporate IT systems using Java. This announcement is good news because it should be easier to deploy to servers and a I can guarantee that I know what JRE I'm working with in production. I can now move to Java 7 without having to worry about breaking other systems or adding an extra deployment step for my apps.

Aren't you concerned about freezing the app to yet another runtime that must be individually updated because of security issues or features that are decoupled from the operating system (like timezone data)? Or do you see this as an opportunity to roll out timely updates that are independent of a global system runtime? Since you mention servers, how will you avoid clobbering machine-specific tweaks (like heap size)?

Re: Java is preparing to co-bundling and native binaries

#40

Post by mgkimsal »

regularfry wrote: post #26
bni wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but still parts of the JVM would be duplicated between apps and updated on app developer X's own schedule.

Part of what this seems to be there to solve is the situation where the user doesn't have access rights to install a JRE.

Why "installing" almost anything requires "access rights" is still confusing to me. I don't understand why there's not been a movement to 'install' things in to my own home directory structured, vs "c:\program files" on windows "/usr/bin" and such on linux. - Fall back to c:\mystuff or ~/bin.
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