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CockroachDB license change

cockroachlabs.com

121–130 of 476 posts

Re: CockroachDB license change

#121
post #46
post #3

Overall I feel like this is a step in the right direction. I do love Cockroach, but the old licensing model was pretty brutal if you required any enterprise features (ex: incremental backup). For reference, some other data stores doing "horizontal scale of writes" ..any others I'm missing ? * MySQL: Vitess, Planetscale, TiDB, MariaDB Spider * Postgres: Citus, YugabyteDB, YDB, Neon * SQLite: mvsqlite, marmot * Documen…

Most of those solutions are not on part with Cockroach, Cockroach is basically Spanner usable outside of Google. So global transaction with cluster world wide.

Spanner is cheap in comparison depending on your storage requirements. I've seen CockroachDB quoted as 10x more, and for a product that is harder to sell to stake holders.

Re: CockroachDB license change

#124
I spotted this company in their seed stage and wanted to invest. The founders asked us to provide names for reference checks, etc - a bit unusual, but we were almost done with the commitment, so why not?

After quite a lot of work, introductions, and back and forth, they told us: sorry, Google Ventures is investing and we're kicking everyone else out, despite we expected an allocation at that point (50k, not very large). Not nice by them, and not nice by GV, but... Just another lesson learned in the epicenter of startup investing which is San Francisco. This was Feb 2015. Wow, almost 10 years ago. Time flies.

I am still happy to see they've been successful at building the company. I loved the product from the very beginning.

Re: CockroachDB license change

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is described as a rugpull because of the marketing around it being open source. Coackroach however was never open source, it was BSL licensed. This change does appear to mean that old versions will no longer eventually convert to open source, though. Thus it would be up to the the BSL promoters and marketers to decide whether or not this is a rugpull. As an open source user and proponent, I don't really care.

> Coackroach however was never open source, it was BSL licensed. It used to be Apache2. :) Their blog post announcing this in 2019 happens to now 404: https://www.cockroachlabs.com/blog/oss-relicensing-cockroach... But see also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40058332 .

Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20190604173131/https://www.cockr...

Re: CockroachDB license change

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that whenever an open source project is run by a VC-backed company, it sooner or later ends up like this. Increasingly it seems that "open source" is just the teaser to get people interested and then when investors want revenue growth, the rug gets pulled. IMO, it's not really open source if its run by a company that will eventually use its position to squeeze its users for cash.

Maybe we will have to replace "open source" with "spec driven". As you point out, open source can be just as bad as closed source, given future changes in direction by the project team. But "spec driven" means that anybody can come along and compete, and you can switch to them, regardless of how the original developers feel about it.

Is it not more about who does the development?

If cone entity does the development, they can change direction or licensing and it is hard for anyone to fork.

If you have more of a bazaar form of development with many contributors neither is as easy (even less so if you do not have a CLA). Even if you have a small core team of developers, a really bad direction is likely to lead to a split.

Re: CockroachDB license change

#128

I'm trying to figure out how this is better than Postgress ? Does it perform significantly better to justify the cost? Back in the day I worked heavily with databases and we always tilted towards open source.

For most databases (like Postgres), you typically run a single database (per shard, possibly), and replicate changes to a live read-only backup as fast as possible. If the live R/W database fails, you quickly switch the backup to R/W, and point traffic there instead.

Then, there's a class of databases that tries to actively commit across multiple geographies. You pay a cost (in terms of latency, and typically also $$$), but when a commit succeeds, it has been written durably and reliably, using some consensus protocol, across multiple geographies.

The exemplar is probably Spanner, which uses atomic clocks to get very specific about time to narrow the latency gap as much as possible. Cockroach is broadly in the same class, although without atomic clocks I believe it's using network roundtrip measurements and/or some kind of mathematical time abstraction (like counters of come kind) to do the same thing. Can't ever be quite as fast, but you don't need atomic clocks!

What's _really_ funny is when people start out choosing Spanner because of its global replication, then decide it's too expensive, and settle on regional non-replicated Spanner DBs to save cost. Like, that's just a database, man. (Or maybe something slightly above a single database, like Aurora replicated across Availability Zones in the same Region).

Other folks can chime in, but there are a growing number of databases in this class. TiDB I believe is one. I _thought_ PlanetScale was just sharded mysql (Vitess+MySQL = clever auto-(re-)sharding), but perhaps it does replicated writes too - I see it getting mentioned here a bunch.

Re: CockroachDB license change

#129
> Does this mean that CockroachDB is no longer open source?

> CockroachDB will remain source available under a new license. While the new license is a proprietary enterprise license, the source code will still be available for viewing and contributions.

The word you're looking for is "yes".

Re: CockroachDB license change

#130
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point. The ASF's FAQ [1] states that "All software developed by all projects of The Apache Software Foundation is freely available without charge" and that it "is specified in the Foundation's Articles of Incorporation [2]", however I see no such specification in the linked incorporation. Is there some actual legal guarantee there? [1]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/license-faq.html#IsItFree [2]: ht…

I think it's mentioned in this document: https://www.apache.org/foundation/records/certificate.html

Thanks!

It seems a little short of the claim in their FAQ though, but it's something:

> The purpose of the Corporation is to engage in any lawful act or activity [...] including the creation and maintenance of "open source" software distributed by the Corporation to the public at no charge

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