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Apple vs. the "Free Market"

pluralistic.net

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Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#31

Post by adesanmi »

If Patreon doesn’t like Apple’s rules, they should just take their app off the App Store.

All these companies moaning about Apple yet aren’t doing the one thing they have the power to do which is just leave.

If they refuse to leave, then they’re admitting that Apple’s platform is providing value to them and they should pay what Apple wants. I support creators on Patreon, what exactly is wrong with just doing everything via their website? The mobile web is a thing, what more do they need for their glorified payments processing platform?

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#32

Post by taeric »

tines wrote: post #23
brigadier132 wrote: post #4

Apple's product is its users. All of the privacy changes are not to protect the privacy of their users, it's to ensure that there are no ways to access Apple device users without Apple being the middleman.

[flagged]

They are not purchasable; but they are revenue generating for Apple, specifically. So, it isn't that off?

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#33

Post by brigadier132 »

taeric wrote: post #32
tines wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

They are not purchasable; but they are revenue generating for Apple, specifically. So, it isn't that off?

They are explicitly purchasable. What do you think advertising on the App store is? What do you think Google paying $20 billion to be the default search engine is?

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#34

Post by AlexandrB »

brigadier132 wrote: post #20
AlexandrB wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but I don't use shopping apps so I don't know who does or does not have an app. Temu just comes to mind because of their dismal reputation and obnoxious marketing.

I don't think you get it because you wouldn't have asked the question in the first place if you did. If there is actual competition in a market, the surplus generated by economic transactions is more fairly distributed by the participants in the transaction. When there is competition, businesses also need to compete and improve their products to drive efficiencies (for better margins) and to make the product more att…

At no point was I equating Apple and Amazon. I was asking why Apple doesn't collect 30% from Amazon (which Amazon would naturally pass on to consumers) when people buy goods from Amazon's iOS app.

My entire point is that this distinction seems increasingly arbitrary on Apple's part and is perhaps driven by the expected outrage if they tried to pull the same stunt with retailers like Amazon or Temu.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#35

Post by II2II »

brigadier132 wrote: post #7
AlexandrB wrote: post #2

What's the conceptual difference between Apple charging 30% for Patreon subcribers vs. charging 30% for purchases on Temu or the Amazon app? This distinction seems completely arbitrary to me. I suspect the only reason it exists is that adding a 30% Apple surcharge to every Amazon purchase would cause too much outrage. Disclaimer: I've never used Temu or the Amazon app, but I'm assuming they don't apply a 30% surcharg…

> What's the conceptual difference between Apple charging 30% for Patreon subcribers vs. charging 30% for purchases on Temu or the Amazon app? I can name more than 1 competitor to Amazon.

Depending upon how you look at it, there is more than one competitor to Apple. It kinda sucks that most of the competition to iOS runs one operating system, yet that one operating system is supported by multiple hardware vendors and multiple online storefronts.

Yet there is also another competitor to Apple on iOS devices. It is called the web. Patreon in no way owes money to Apple if the end user fires up a web browser on their phone and makes their contribution through the website. Argue all that you want about convenience, and you're probably right on that front, but it is a way to circumvent Apple to have more of your contribution delivered to the intended recipient.

In the end, the decision of iOS users to support Apple's practices are at issue here. Sometimes you just have to say no using whatever means are at your disposal.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#36

Post by FinnKuhn »

> Every artist, performer and creator on Patreon is about to get screwed out of 30% of their gross revenue, which will be diverted to Apple

Stopped reading after the first sentence as this just isn't true. First of all this only affects users who subscribe via the iOS/iPadOS app. Secondly Patreon creators have the option to have the prices for those Apps adjusted so that they receive the same amount of money and Apples fees are just added on top of it.

With blank statements like this that just aren't true and seem to only exist to enrage the reader I don't think the rest of the text will be any better and from just skimming it very quickly it just launches into a rant about Apples business practices without much structure and without any context to the claim in the beginning.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#37

Post by vundercind »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #26

General computing devices like smartphones should allow users to install whatever they want without any cost or restrictions.

Ok, but then I’ll need another kind of locked-down device provided by a company with enough power to force other strong companies to not be dicks, to do all my actually-important-in-normal-life computer stuff.

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#38

Post by taeric »

brigadier132 wrote: post #33
taeric wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not purchasable; but they are revenue generating for Apple, specifically. So, it isn't that off?

They are explicitly purchasable. What do you think advertising on the App store is? What do you think Google paying $20 billion to be the default search engine is?

Apologies, I was meaning that as "even if we grant that they are not purchasable." That is, I wasn't wanting to argue the point of if you can directly purchase it, as that doesn't seem important for the point?

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#39

Post by areoform »

> Tumblr still remains heavily moderated and heavily censored. Why? Because Apple kept kicking Tumblr out of the App Store on the basis that it contained sexual material, and without Apple users, Tumblr was dead in the water

> Apple claims this is merely a matter of "editorial standards," no different from a bookstore deciding not to shelve pornography. The difference is that in this case, Apple can block you from patronizing another bookstore, by forcing you to forfeit the $1,000 you spent on your device and potentially many thousands more in media and data and other switching costs.

The question at the heart of this issue is simple; do we own our devices, or not?

When I pay $1,400 for a computer, do I own it? If yes, then why does Apple get to decide what I get to watch or not?

And why does Apple prevent me from deciding what speech I get to engage with my device or not?

The app store is, at its heart, an enabler of totalitarianism. The first link of the chain is forged from the freedom to own your computer for marginal profits, but the rest are forged from your human rights.

Do you want Hong Kong to be a democracy? Too bad. Apple removed the application protestors were using to protect themselves from a totalitarian police state, https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/technology/apple-hong-kon...

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/768841864/after-china-objects...

Oh are you gay or queer? Too bad. Apple removes apps made for and by LGBTQ+ people in 78% of countries. Everything from niche forums to dating apps. https://www.fightforthefuture.org/news/2021-06-14-apple-is-e...

Do we own our devices, or do we not?

Re: Apple vs. the "Free Market"

#40

Post by falcolas »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #12
brookst wrote: post #8

[flagged]

Patreon's fees are reasonable for what it provides. Apple's aren't.

Creators disagreed when Patreon last increased their fees (2019), especially since their fee is on top of processing fees. In contrast, Apple's fees are directly in line with their competitors (Sony, Microsoft, Google).
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