Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 524 posts

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#121

Post by JKCalhoun »

treyd wrote: post #83

I really hope that some portions are turned into public institutions (either directly or in the weird way organizations like USPS is) in some way. They've made themselves so deeply ingrained and essential to using the internet as loss leaders in some areas that it's impossible to imagine those services standing on their own and still making sense. That's what's responsible for their monopolization, and natural monopo…

I'm scratching my head trying to think of something Google does that should be a public institution. Can you give an example? YouTube is the closest thing I can think of, but it is tightly bound to advertising.

Wikipedia, archive.org are two examples of non-Google projects that come to mind when I think of internet "public-good". They seem to be doing fine without advertising dollars (although perhaps they are only hobbling along, I don't know — but I would rather they get "public institution" treatment before Google franchises).

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#122

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

It is so easy to switch away from Google I just can't take any break up attempt seriously.

ATT WAS phone service in the U.S. 90% of the U.S used ATT when it was broken up, and much of that 90% had no alternative.

With Google if another better search engine did appear you could switch in minutes.

And if you consider Android a monopoly then you'd have to consider iOS one too, and that's one much more obvious in it's user impact with a 30% cut being taken on the only app store you can install apps from.

If you don't like default X being purchased, pass a law. Otherwise we'll just be back here in a few years later if some other company becomes unpopular.

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#123

Post by nordsieck »

brookst wrote: post #102
fny wrote: post #31

I'm very curious to see what a breakup looks like. Past breakups involved "uniform" businesses: - American Tobacco: Commodity - Standard Oil: Commodity - AT&T: Utility - Northern Securities: Railroads - Swift & Co: Meatpacking - Kodak: Film - Paramount: Movie Theaters Google is more of a synergistic conglomerate. How would spinning off an individual business like Chrome, Android, or AdWords reduce their respective do…

Ads and search are the two businesses that most directly collude and which could both survive and thrive independently. If the search business worked with other ad networks to maximize their revenue, while the ad business worked with other search engines, we’d likely see higher quality search results, less confusion about what’s an ad versus a result, and better as rates for buyers. That said I don’t support that rem…

> Ads and search are the two businesses that most directly collude and which could both survive and thrive independently.

I'm skeptical that search is viable as an independent business at scale. I know DDG is making a go of it, but the business only has to pay a single salary.

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#124

Post by JKCalhoun »

tourmalinetaco wrote: post #113
treyd wrote: post #83

I really hope that some portions are turned into public institutions (either directly or in the weird way organizations like USPS is) in some way. They've made themselves so deeply ingrained and essential to using the internet as loss leaders in some areas that it's impossible to imagine those services standing on their own and still making sense. That's what's responsible for their monopolization, and natural monopo…

YouTube should be the main platform the government should form into a public institution. Not only due to its historical and cultural significance, but also due to the fact that it is (almost assuredly) unprofitable and thus at-risk.

It cannot sustain itself on its ad revenue?

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#125

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

Forgeties79 wrote: post #99
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google's "search results" are the textbook definition of a monopolized good/service. Defining a market as a specific search engine's search results is wild. Wouldn't every search engine have a monopoly over it's results? A grocery store monopoly over its shelves? Etc.

When you are the only grocery store for 500mi yes you functionally have a “monopoly over your shelves.”

You can switch your search to bing in less time then it took to write this message.

Your 500 mile analogy simply does not apply.

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#126

Post by bentice »

uptownJimmy wrote: post #39

Google's "search results" are the textbook definition of a monopolized good/service. The whole thing is almost a casino, rigged to the point of absurdity. There has been nothing in my life so disillusioning as working on a Web app for a company that is more or less required to play Google's game.

To exist on the internet you need to pay Google. Google is essentially the government of the open web. The problem is that government like monopolies do arise especially when there are network effects.

We need to regulate search and app stores like it is a public utility. Pricing should be dutch auction or something provably fair. 20-30% for in-app purchases is obviously insane when credit cards do 1.5-3.5%.

I worry that the government will not do sensible regulations and instead play investment banker and try to create spin off companies.

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#127

Post by brookst »

accurrent wrote: post #35

The best way to tackle this is enforce right for repair and require opensourcing of various components. Breaking up google will be an impossible job. If we mandate that our electronics and software must be repairable then these companies will automatically no longer be able to hold monopolies on their platforms.

…and people will buy imported tech and use foreign software because it works better than what is legally mandated here.

The idea that the government has to force people to buy things they don’t want never ends well.

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#128

Post by brookst »

FMecha wrote: post #57
retskrad wrote: post #4

1. Forbid Google from paying Apple and Android OEM’s to be the default search engine. Also, detach Google search from Android and forbid Google from forcing it to be included on every Android phone. 2. Give Google search competitors access to Google’s search data so these new AI search engine companies can compete. Without these huge amounts of data, they have no chance. Done!

Don't the court already did #1?

Nope

Re: Google is a monopoly – the fix isn't obvious

#130

Post by vouaobrasil »

shadowgovt wrote: post #79
uptownJimmy wrote: post #39

Google's "search results" are the textbook definition of a monopolized good/service. The whole thing is almost a casino, rigged to the point of absurdity. There has been nothing in my life so disillusioning as working on a Web app for a company that is more or less required to play Google's game.

Your problem isn't Google, your problem is capitalism and the limited attention economy. If you were in a position where you could just put things online and they may or may not be useful to people, you wouldn't be having this problem. But you're not; you're working for a taskmaster that demands attention or they can't justify their existence. If Google evaporates tomorrow, there's no guarantee that your product gets…

I disagree with this. Capitalism may be a problem, but Google's specific technology and size, enabling them to reach people at high-speed, is also a problem. The fact is, capitalism on a small scale (trade with money in local communities) is much less damaging than on a global scale due to the anonymizing effects of scale and the economies of scale being much more efficient at effecting tragedy of the commons.

Yes, capitalism is a problem, but it's also true that Google is a problem because Google's scale makes a poor combination with capitalism. Which is worse, the match or the gasoline? Both, if they are used to cause a devastating fire.

Post reply on HN