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Things I learned from teaching (2023)

claytonwramsey.com

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Re: Things I learned from teaching (2023)

#21
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not harder than any other job, but it's harder than many. Teaching, especially in middle and high school, is not as technically difficult as say many developer roles, but it is far more difficult when it comes to organization, emotional resilience, multitasking, and managing people. It requires you to not only keep 20+ twelve year olds from devolving into chaos, but to also teach them things many of them could c…

> Then there are the shootings... You must be from the US. If the old rule of Internet chat was that someone would (eventually) draw comparison to Adolf Hitler or German National Socialism period, then the new rule on HN is someone will raise the expectation of gun violence in the US.

Because, very sadly, it is now an epidemic in the US that has no workable solution in sight because of intransigence around a 233 year old constitutional amendment in a context of intense, media-led paranoia (perhaps creating a feedback loop). "Bowling for Columbine" is 22 years old now - I don't think there's been substantial progress any of the root causes Moore called out back then.

Re: Things I learned from teaching (2023)

#22
Great article! From my own teaching experience,

> I'm not a hundred percent certain of the exact mechanisms of how, yet. In my experience, I learn the most when I struggle; if a student can shortcut through all the hard parts on, for example, and assignment, they're not going to learn very much. On the flip side, when most students struggle, they just give up. Somehow I need to make assignments which thread the needle between being too hard to solve and too easy to learn anything.

The academic theory is that for each learner, there are three concentric circles - the way I was taught them, they were called the comfort zone, the growth zone, and the danger zone. (https://commonslibrary.org/the-learning-zone-model/ calls them comfort, learning and alarm zones) Learning happens best when you push people beyond their comfort zone, but not into the danger zone (where the amount retained rapidly converges to zero). Of course, this is easier said than done, especially with a class of students with varying abilities, though I like your approach to the problem. It's even harder when you're teaching a 200-student introductory class and there's no way to really set individual assignments.

> [Lecturing] is designed for the lecturer's convenience ...

I personally really liked most of my lectures I sat in as a student - yes there was one guy who just read out from the textbook he'd published, so I skipped those lectures and just read the book. But overall, I liked most of my lectures; I might be the exception to the rule. I think the important thing is to make a lecture interesting with some of the same storytelling ideas that writers and TV/film scriptwriters use, and to throw in jokes and asides every now and then. Be a human being with personality. Worked examples, live-coding, experiments etc. are also useful, depending on the topic. (For more examples and scientific background, see Willingham's book "Why don't students like school?") Of course, that's a lot more work for the lecturer than designing for their own convenience. I've lectured like this myself before and students loved it. I've also heard from students at various places that, now the pandemic has died down mostly, "We're not paying fees just to watch some videos. We can do that on youtube. We want real lectures back."

The most important part, which one of my professors told me in the first week and was some of the best advice I ever got at university, was that you don't actually learn anything in lectures. That's not the point. You learn things by doing the exercises, and by studying in your own time. Lectures are just there to prepare you for the learning, because without the prep you wouldn't know what to do in the exercises.

> If you're on the fence about teaching, you should definitely give it a try, if only because interacting with students is such a rewarding experience.

Definitely!

Re: Things I learned from teaching (2023)

#23
I used to teach at public middle school. The format of "lecture and assignments" is a big reason I couldn't keep doing it. Every trained educator knows it's scientifically the _least_ effective pedagogical method we know, but the school administrators, parents, and the entire system forced us to keep doing it.

After years of learning that lecture is almost completely ineffective, I had to do it anyway because the system is fundamentally broken.

Not only is lecture scientifically ineffective, but students can watch for free on YouTube or Khan academy the best lectures ever given on a subject, at their preferred speed, format, time, and location. Lectures that are animated, drawn, rewindable, and humorous. But I had to give the lecture anyway. Live. The same lecture three times a day to my three different classes. And we were graded by the administrators at how well we performed those lectures. We were even made to write them ourselves.

Imagine being an actor forced to write and perform a play three times a day that no one in the audience wanted to watch, and you knew for a fact was a waste of their time. But your bosses and the audience's parents demand it anyway. It's hard not to grow extremely cynical about the whole affair.

Then there are mandatory state exams which are even more cynical. All our funding came from the results of those, so we were extremely stressed about cramming all year for those. Cheating by teachers was rampant, so the school tried to have us monitor each other, which only worked if you wanted to be hated as a snitch.

If a student was failing, it was my fault. I had to justify any bad grade given to a student. If I did justify it, I was then blamed for their failure. There was no reason at all to give bad grades to students.

--Trauma dumping time--

If you happen to be male, expect students to act extremely inappropriately as a joke. They know you can't really do anything about it, so students will do it to stress you out. This is extremely stressful. I was constantly sexually harassed by older students, and was terrified I would lose my job over it.

My first day at one middle school in Texas I overheard several of the other teachers questioning why was I the only male adult on campus in tones indicating they thought I was a pervert. They could not believe a male would want to teach middle school for any other reason.

It became hard to show up everyday fearing that I would get assaulted by a student and thrown in prison over it. I was extremely careful to always have witnesses around, which wasn't always possible as there was no separate bathrooms for teachers. At one point I seriously considered wearing a bodycam every day just to have my own evidence of innocence.

Then there were the bomb threats, hallway fights, and the fact that quite a few of the male 10th graders were bigger than me and violent. At least once a week there was a hallway fight. At least once a month we had to evacuate for a bomb threat.

So as a teacher, I had to write and perform a play every day that no one wanted to see, that was a waste of everyone's time, to students who thought it would be funny to get me thrown in prison, a few of whom were bigger than me and violent.

The public school system is completely broken. I left it and never looked back. I would never send my kids to a lecture format school system in a million years. I would send them to a democratic free school, Montessori, unschool, or homeschool. But our public schools (and most private schools that rely on lectures) are cynical systems designed to stamp out creativity, critical thinking, logic, emotional intelligence, and empathy. It is designed to make incurious factory workers.

Don't take my word for it, see the words of John Gatto, the famous NY State teacher of the year: https://cantrip.org/gatto.html

He wrote this in 1990! This was long before cell phones, porn addicted students, mass shootings, and drug abuse. When students could still be given bad grades!

Re: Things I learned from teaching (2023)

#24

I used to teach at public middle school. The format of "lecture and assignments" is a big reason I couldn't keep doing it. Every trained educator knows it's scientifically the _least_ effective pedagogical method we know, but the school administrators, parents, and the entire system forced us to keep doing it. After years of learning that lecture is almost completely ineffective, I had to do it anyway because the sys…

Absolutely horrible!

I teach, but only a few days per week, and definitely not the same lecture for three different classes.

I love it! It's very interactive, lots of questions, opportunity for me to check if students understand and work out solutions to problems together. A lot of humour and fun as well.

In terms of inappropriate behaviour I've found out that strict discipline, equal treatment and the backing of the school solves all problems. The ones who cannot take the discipline quit fairly early.

I of course realize that it is not possible to compare between countries and levels of education, but it does sound to me that the US system is quite broken. =(

Re: Things I learned from teaching (2023)

#25
Great article! Definitely agree that engagement raises like crazy when giving something students can do during the lecture.

In my case, it was a Data Science intro course, so having the theory together with Python Notebooks that I shared beforehand was a good way to get them interested throughout the full 3h of each class. As you said, when technical problems arise it's hard to keep an eye everywhere and patch all holes, so creating smaller groups/teams on that case helps, because even if not everyone can play with the code directly, they can follow things closer.

Main point as you said is that a teaching experience is a huge learning experience.

Re: Things I learned from teaching (2023)

#26

> Nobody goes to office hours This is rough. I was a student who really struggled with some courses during uni. I would estimate that 75% of professors that I visited were incredibly unwelcoming, no matter how much prep I had done before the visit. It really turned me off from asking for help. That said, I do believe that most of my uni professors were not passionate about teaching -- they wanted to do research, and…

Reflecting on my own experience on both sides, I can tell a generational difference. As student, research-focused professors and some old timers made you feel unwelcome in office hours, a mixture of “you are wasting my time” and “you should have put more work on this, I’ll just give you some hints so I can send you away quick”. Many had in common being from a generation and country where university access was not so…

> Academia is its own kind of hell

Reminds me of Sayre's Law:

"Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law

Re: Things I learned from teaching (2023)

#27

> COLL 110 was a standard lectures-and-assignments college class - I lectured during our scheduled meeting time, then students did their projects on their own. Having tried this, I think that this is just not the future of education. This mode of teaching is designed mostly for the lecturer's convenience, but it's a terrible way to foster student understanding. In this section I wish you would have mentioned the cost…

I've never been to a university that didn't run tutorials or practicals alongside lectures. Given a flipped classroom doesn't have lectures it can only be cheaper than the standard method, since the tutorials exist in either model.

> I believe the fallout from lectures and university in general are just a part of the design.

Just no. There are so many factors that go into students dropping out, many of which are outside their control (e.g. needing to support parents). There is a lot of research on this.

Re: Things I learned from teaching (2023)

#28

I used to teach at public middle school. The format of "lecture and assignments" is a big reason I couldn't keep doing it. Every trained educator knows it's scientifically the _least_ effective pedagogical method we know, but the school administrators, parents, and the entire system forced us to keep doing it. After years of learning that lecture is almost completely ineffective, I had to do it anyway because the sys…

Absolutely horrible! I teach, but only a few days per week, and definitely not the same lecture for three different classes. I love it! It's very interactive, lots of questions, opportunity for me to check if students understand and work out solutions to problems together. A lot of humour and fun as well. In terms of inappropriate behaviour I've found out that strict discipline, equal treatment and the backing of the…

That's really great you've got a good place to teach. I think I would really enjoy such a place.

What age range/subjects are you teaching? Is it a mandatory system or elective?

I have thought a lot recently about going back to teach at a community college or equivalent.

I do teach now a few times a year at a local firefighting academy which helps scratch the itch. The students are only there as volunteers, so they are a lot more engaged. It helps that we can punish them with extra duties and labor if they do anything dangerous or disrespectful.

I sometimes feel like public school would be a lot smoother if we could force students to carry around a 20kg container of foam all day when they misbehave! I think a physical labor punishment like that helps curb behavior with some people in a way that nothing else can.

Re: Things I learned from teaching (2023)

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely horrible! I teach, but only a few days per week, and definitely not the same lecture for three different classes. I love it! It's very interactive, lots of questions, opportunity for me to check if students understand and work out solutions to problems together. A lot of humour and fun as well. In terms of inappropriate behaviour I've found out that strict discipline, equal treatment and the backing of the…

That's really great you've got a good place to teach. I think I would really enjoy such a place. What age range/subjects are you teaching? Is it a mandatory system or elective? I have thought a lot recently about going back to teach at a community college or equivalent. I do teach now a few times a year at a local firefighting academy which helps scratch the itch. The students are only there as volunteers, so they ar…

If you can get the work, corporate training has better students and more money. You only get a few days with the students, however. Otherwise, there are lots of "learn to code" like groups that need mentors.

Re: Things I learned from teaching (2023)

#30
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people thinking teaching is any harder than any other job that requires a university education? You get trained; you get mentored; you get regular professional improvement. And, the bit about low wages always makes me chuckle. Everyone overlooks the lifetime earnings of a public school teacher: It is usually very good (much better than most boring office jobs), when you include the value of all benefits, inclu…

It's not harder than any other job, but it's harder than many. Teaching, especially in middle and high school, is not as technically difficult as say many developer roles, but it is far more difficult when it comes to organization, emotional resilience, multitasking, and managing people. It requires you to not only keep 20+ twelve year olds from devolving into chaos, but to also teach them things many of them could c…

> teach them things many of them could care less about

I think you mean couldn't care less about!

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