Let me call BS on this one Does anyone remember how to do long division by hand today? I certainly can't But math is much more than your "grocery shopping math" You don't need a calculator for most of math. And I really find it difficult to correlate "how to do long division" in success in areas like statistics, number theory and even calculus, because it's mostly concepts, not "1+1"
I am not a mathematician and I do not do long division on any regular basis. I certainly haven't written it out in over a year. But occasionally I have to think about whether a number like 365 is divisible by a number like 7, and I don't have a calculator or computer beside me. I can wait until I'm around electronics, or I can think: "How many times does 7 go into 36? 5 times." "That makes 35, so now, there's 15 left…
Knowledge of fractions and long division predicts long-term math success
21–30 of 37 posts
Re: Knowledge of fractions and long division predicts long-term math success
#22Poor teaching of fraction arithmetic in elementary schools has been a pet issue of mathematics education reformers in the United States for a long time. Professor Hung-hsi Wu of the University of California Berkeley has been writing about this issue for more than a decade. http://math.berkeley.edu/~wu/ In one of Professor Wu's recent lectures, http://math.berkeley.edu/~wu/Lisbon2010_4.pdf he points out a problem of f…
It seems strange that "2" was listed after "I don't know".
Re: Knowledge of fractions and long division predicts long-term math success
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. I never learned long division, and now I'm getting a PhD in engineering. Computers are good at arithmetic - let them do it! Teach your kids to code instead.
What are they going start with if they don't even know how to write a division algorithm ? real time 3D engines ?
Re: Knowledge of fractions and long division predicts long-term math success
#24Poor teaching of fraction arithmetic in elementary schools has been a pet issue of mathematics education reformers in the United States for a long time. Professor Hung-hsi Wu of the University of California Berkeley has been writing about this issue for more than a decade. http://math.berkeley.edu/~wu/ In one of Professor Wu's recent lectures, http://math.berkeley.edu/~wu/Lisbon2010_4.pdf he points out a problem of f…
It seems strange that "2" was listed after "I don't know".
Re: Knowledge of fractions and long division predicts long-term math success
#25I guess it's my turn to be the guy who says `correlation does not imply causation'. It's clear that something in math education is broken, but I feel like the more important point lies in the next sentence:
> At present, many teachers lack this understanding [of rudimentary mathematics].
I feel like this is much more important than a renewed emphasis on fractions/long division.
Full quote for context:
> "The clear message is that we need to improve instruction in long division and fractions, which will require helping teachers to gain a deeper understanding of the concepts that underlie these mathematical operations. At present, many teachers lack this understanding. Because mastery of fractions, ratios and proportions is necessary in a high percentage of contemporary occupations, we need to start making these improvements now."
Re: Knowledge of fractions and long division predicts long-term math success
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are they going start with if they don't even know how to write a division algorithm ? real time 3D engines ?
I suppose they'll probably start with something the processor doesn't already do for you in hardware.
I don't think so, I think reinventing the wheel is a great way to learn.
Re: Knowledge of fractions and long division predicts long-term math success
#27I wonder if this has to do with the spatial aspect. Americans use that awkward imperial system, which makes it really hard to easily chop up distances. Almost all other countries use the metric system, which makes it very easy to understand dividing lengths. Remember that for ordering and numbers many people use a 2-dimensional line to represent things in their head.
Re: Knowledge of fractions and long division predicts long-term math success
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suppose they'll probably start with something the processor doesn't already do for you in hardware.
What about sorting algorithms? Do you think it's a waist of time to teach them just because it is a solved problem? I don't think so, I think reinventing the wheel is a great way to learn.
Re: Knowledge of fractions and long division predicts long-term math success
#29Poor teaching of fraction arithmetic in elementary schools has been a pet issue of mathematics education reformers in the United States for a long time. Professor Hung-hsi Wu of the University of California Berkeley has been writing about this issue for more than a decade. http://math.berkeley.edu/~wu/ In one of Professor Wu's recent lectures, http://math.berkeley.edu/~wu/Lisbon2010_4.pdf he points out a problem of f…
>> An average United States student is at the bottom quartile level for Singapore, or from another point of view, a top quartile student in the United States is only at the level of an average student in Singapore. http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009001.pdf Looking at the US-flattering 4th grade scores, it appears that the Singapore average is 599, whereas the US Asian average is a pitiful 582. 8th grade sees the US suf…
The last time I saw a comment of this nature in a thread on the subject of mathematics education in the United States and east Asia (both places I have lived), someone advised me not to feed the troll. But that was a different troll, and taking your comment, even where you incorrectly say "highly misleading" about my comment, as an attempt to advance the discussion, I'll invite onlookers to look at the evidence.
I backed up my statement with a link
http://pirls.bc.edu/timss2007/PDF/T07_M_IR_Chapter1.pdf
and anyone who takes a look at Exhibit 1.1 of that link (on pages 34 and 35 of the .PDF document), which is a good example of a comparative data distribution display, can see how the national median level of performance in the United States compares to the bottom quartile level for Singapore, and on the other hand where the top quartile line for the United States appears compared to the median line for Singapore. Q.E.D.
Unfortunately, once upon a time a blogger ignorant of the large body of research on textbook content and classroom practice in different countries for elementary mathematics in different countries of the world
http://www.amazon.com/The-Teaching-Gap-Improving-Education/d...
http://www.amazon.com/Knowing-Teaching-Elementary-Mathematic...
took the lazy way out and said that if "race" is taken into account, then the United States is second to none in provision of public education, which is simply a lie. That meme has spread through some politically tendentious blog networks, but every serious professional researcher on comparative education policy can, and does, point to more meaningful differences between the United States and other countries. It would have helped that blogger also to be more familiar with the huge literature on "race" issues in countries all over the world,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:WeijiBaikeBianji/Anthropol...
but let me just disagree with the suggestion in your comment by pointing that nobody who makes the suggestion made by the blogger has actually gathered the data to show all the steps to prove that "race" as such makes any difference at all in educational attainment. Meanwhile I have taken care, in links already shown in my first comment above to document both the known inferiority of provision of primary education to some "race"-defined groups in the United States
http://www.ams.org/notices/200502/fea-kenschaft.pdf
and the degree to which other countries outperform the United States in providing primary education to the most disadvantaged groups in each of those countries.
http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/17/26/48165173.pdf
Moreover, and this link is new to this thread, but not newly posted to Hacker News,
http://educationnext.org/teaching-math-to-the-talented/
the United States is conspicuous in how little it meets the educational needs of its strongest students in mathematics.
in the big picture it's hard to conclude that our education is failing
There is certainly room for semantic disagreement about how bad performance has to be before it is regarded as "failing" performance, but I note for the record that the United States has abundant resources devoted to K-12 schooling
http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/50/9/49685503.pdf
but underperforms compared to what other countries do with less abundant resources. I didn't use the word "fail" or "failing" or "failure" in my comment, but I did suggest, and I think I suggested this with warrant, that United States schools could do a better job of teaching fraction arithmetic to the young people in their care.
Re: Knowledge of fractions and long division predicts long-term math success
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suppose they'll probably start with something the processor doesn't already do for you in hardware.
What about sorting algorithms? Do you think it's a waist of time to teach them just because it is a solved problem? I don't think so, I think reinventing the wheel is a great way to learn.
I've done MIT Intro to Computer Science on OCW and am currently working on Stanford Algorithm Design and Analysis on Coursera. MergeSort took maybe 10 minutes to implement in Python. I have little trouble with recursion (now), and am decent at understanding and mentally modeling complex systems (i.e. AP Chemistry).
But The Powers That Be have decided that the rapid and accurate selection and application of procedures to small, contrived "problems" are the best measure of suitability for a STEM education, so I have little to no shot anywhere besides my state's JavaSchool. Maybe they're right.
But from experience, I will say this: when you teach or test sorting algorithms, you're teaching and testing ideas and how students think. When you teach and test fractions, you're teaching a procedure and testing a student's ability to execute it quickly and accurately without getting bored or transposing digits.
IMHO, the relative weights we put on those completely separate abilities are backwards.
(I have never had trouble with the ideas behind fractions, but make me find the common denominator ten times in 5 minutes and I'll probably screw up once or twice.)