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Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool

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Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool

#171

Post by tdeck »

godelski wrote: post #139
tdeck wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is that anyone working on deepfakes doean't care much about ethics or they wouldn't be doing it in the first place.

I think this is an oversimplification that undermines your goals. If you're unwilling to recognize the benefits of something, it becomes easier to dismiss your argument. Instead, the truth is balancing trade-offs and benefits. Certainly there is a clear and harmful downside to this tech. But there are benefits. It does save a lot of money for the entertainment industry when you need to edit or do retakes. The most fa…

In this case, the road to hell seems to be paved with intent to... make it easier to goof around and make silly prank videos, I guess? A lot of deepfake projects seem to be aimed in that direction and while there's nothing wrong with that in itself, it's hardly a compelling use case that outweighs the obvious harms that everyone has been talking about for years now. That's why I say that if someone cared about those harms they wouldn't be making this. Of course there are always things we tell ourselves: "if I didn't make this someone else would", "by making this easier (faking videos of real people) I'm training the public to be more skeptical", etc... etc... At what point is it obvious that these are excuses and the person really doesn't give a damn?

Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool

#172

Post by godelski »

tdeck wrote: post #171
godelski wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is an oversimplification that undermines your goals. If you're unwilling to recognize the benefits of something, it becomes easier to dismiss your argument. Instead, the truth is balancing trade-offs and benefits. Certainly there is a clear and harmful downside to this tech. But there are benefits. It does save a lot of money for the entertainment industry when you need to edit or do retakes. The most fa…

In this case, the road to hell seems to be paved with intent to... make it easier to goof around and make silly prank videos, I guess? A lot of deepfake projects seem to be aimed in that direction and while there's nothing wrong with that in itself, it's hardly a compelling use case that outweighs the obvious harms that everyone has been talking about for years now. That's why I say that if someone cared about those…

So the truth here is that the reason they're doing this is because they aren't yet good enough to sell to Hollywood. Not to say that Hollywood isn't using deep learning[0], but there's typically a combination of classical tools and deep learning tools. But these companies all seem to have an aversion to traditional tools and appear to want to be deep learning all the way down. This is a weird tactic and the fact that people are funding such companies is baffling. I can't even imagine a future where you don't want traditional tools, even if ML could do 99%. Hell, even 100%. Language is pretty lossy and experts are still going to want to make fine grain edits.

[0] Disney Research is pretty cool: https://www.youtube.com/@DisneyResearchHub

Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool

#173

Post by stevenicr »

crooked-v wrote: post #154
instagraham wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That they do, but perhaps the relevant context is that while porn is globally unregulatable, but the one entity that has proven its ability to regulate it (or at least exercise some control over it) have been payment processors like Visa and Mastercard. FT had a fantastic podcast on the porn industry and the guy behind Mindgeek. Like many stories about multinational entities, you constantly hear the usual refrains -…

They don't care about the content, they care about the correlation with customers who have an exceptional rate of chargebacks or other payment avoidance on legitimate purchases. Cryptocurrency and the like may offer a way out of that problem by allowing direct purchases, but only for companies willing to deal with the support burden of making everything nonrefundable.

There have been some instances where they have been 'about the content'-

The statements about chargebacks and porn were certainly true around 20 years ago, but that became less and less over time.

Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool

#174

Post by stevenicr »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #155
crooked-v wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't care about the content, they care about the correlation with customers who have an exceptional rate of chargebacks or other payment avoidance on legitimate purchases. Cryptocurrency and the like may offer a way out of that problem by allowing direct purchases, but only for companies willing to deal with the support burden of making everything nonrefundable.

Finance is also an extremely socially conservative industry. There are very recessive attitudes behind closed doors.

And also the recessive policies come out in the open in front of the world from people like the ones who created "operation chokepoint", who are perhaps not help us as being super 'socially conservative'.

Your choice of entertainment, information and tools is under attack from all sides when they can get away with it.

Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool

#175

Post by ncr100 »

godelski wrote: post #170
ncr100 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like the beginning of a treatise, a useful one, to help us come to grips with all this AI stuff. Upvoted.

In a way it is. Practicing writing to HN but when I write similar things I often get no feedback. Positive nor negative. I'm worry verbosity is my issue but I don't know how to state so much briefly. Thanks for the reply, and honestly my goal is to start conversations.

Fair. YW.

Being a deep thinker, which I assume you are, leads to those results, in my view.

It sounds like you don't want to just "do the punchline" either, that you want to lay it out and moreover you want to share kind of the experience of unrolling your thoughts, so it really makes sense that you're not just sharing the punch line.

I mean that's my interpretation and you know I haven't really met you so take what I'm saying with a mountainous size grain of salt.

Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool

#176

Post by godelski »

ncr100 wrote: post #175
godelski wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way it is. Practicing writing to HN but when I write similar things I often get no feedback. Positive nor negative. I'm worry verbosity is my issue but I don't know how to state so much briefly. Thanks for the reply, and honestly my goal is to start conversations.

Fair. YW. Being a deep thinker, which I assume you are, leads to those results, in my view. It sounds like you don't want to just "do the punchline" either, that you want to lay it out and moreover you want to share kind of the experience of unrolling your thoughts, so it really makes sense that you're not just sharing the punch line. I mean that's my interpretation and you know I haven't really met you so take what…

  > Being a deep thinker
I think I'm just unsatisfied with "because" lol. Realistically I think I'm just asking "why" a few more times.

  > you don't want to just "do the punchline"
I think the punchline is not only non-obvious, and actually counterintuitive or easy to disagree with (if it was obvious, we wouldn't have the issues, right?). So I think just stating it would likely be ineffective. So then it becomes about how show the logic. Which if disagreed upon the steps or assumptions, I'm more than happy to update.

  >  I haven't really met you
Actually that's why I find this particularly helpful. Different kind of bias. I do not find these conversations difficult in person, but it is harder in comments. Maybe just blog form is best for online.

And thanks for the comments. They do give me a bit to think about.

Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool

#178

Post by instagraham »

crooked-v wrote: post #154
instagraham wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That they do, but perhaps the relevant context is that while porn is globally unregulatable, but the one entity that has proven its ability to regulate it (or at least exercise some control over it) have been payment processors like Visa and Mastercard. FT had a fantastic podcast on the porn industry and the guy behind Mindgeek. Like many stories about multinational entities, you constantly hear the usual refrains -…

They don't care about the content, they care about the correlation with customers who have an exceptional rate of chargebacks or other payment avoidance on legitimate purchases. Cryptocurrency and the like may offer a way out of that problem by allowing direct purchases, but only for companies willing to deal with the support burden of making everything nonrefundable.

I don't think this is the case - because then we'd see them pull card services for porn websites altogether. This clearly didn't happen, nor was it the intention. They never did anything that would reduce revenue.

Instead, it was more a case of regulation to avoid looking like their services were financing illegal or illicit content.

Re: Deep Live Cam: Real-time face swapping and one-click video deepfake tool

#179

Post by tonetegeatinst »

realce wrote: post #126
rebeccaskinner wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few off the top of my head: Movies and TV: - As an alternative to motion capture for animation - As an alternative to existing de-aging CGI when you want to flash back to a younger version of a character (especially for cases where newer sequels are being made for much older movies) - As an easy way to get some additional footage if an actor no longer looks the part In a professional setting: - Conduct job int…

None of these uses - most of which benefit a slim percentage of society or are needlessly complicated by this technology - outweigh the severe downsides to society. It's the apex of foolishness to act glibly about this. This all ends extremely badly.

Most people don't need to know how to code or have access to hacking tools. Their are such limited use cases for such tools and a great deal of harm can be caused the abuse of them.
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