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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#521

Post by david_allison »

AlexandrB wrote: post #249
bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

Apple has quietly been one of the biggest culprits in the proliferation of subscription software. They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. Subscriptions are also the easiest way to implement a software demo or trial in the App Store. Finally they use their control of the App Store to coerce anyone doing something different than monthly/yearly subscriptions into that model (as we see here). It sucks big time…

Not being able to set custom price points for subscriptions is also painful

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#522

Post by desert_rue »

cyberax wrote: post #514
iudqnolq wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downloaded the Patreon app to listen to podcasts. Regardless of who is to blame from my perspective their imperfect app provides a better user experience than Firefox or Chrome on my Android phone.

Does it sync them for offline listen? I can do that with Youtube videos in a browser. They could have trivially added that to their website.

I was able to get the feed and import it into my favorite podcast app (Overcast). I don’t open the app very often.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#523

Post by gretch »

brigadier132 wrote: post #500
s1artibartfast wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair is what two consenting adults agree to in the market place. >does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? I will. If most apple users refuse to go outside the app store for their content, Than clearly they care more about the ease of access than the content itself. I agree that the high prop…

> Fair is what two consenting adults agree to in the market place. This has been known to not be true since capitalism was first conceived. I am the biggest free market capitalism proponent and what apple has on their app store is not free market capitalism, its pure rent seeking. Apple users should be able to decide what software and stores run on the device that they own.

> Apple users should be able to decide what software and stores run on the device that they own.

They do decide, right when they buy their phone.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#524

Post by ToucanLoucan »

DataDive wrote: post #519
danShumway wrote: post #389

Another point that Patreon isn't really emphasizing here that seems relevant to any conversations about "fairness" is that Apple's fees on Patreon subscriptions in-app are now higher than Patreon's fees. It's important to recognize any time that we're talking about the market that services charge what they can, not what is fair. The market does not have a concept of fairness, only competition. This is why there is no…

> does anybody want to argue that Apple hosting the Patreon app on iOS provides more value to Patreon subscribers and creators than the existence of Patreon itself does? There is a video link on the page from the original post where the Patreon CEO explains and reiterates the issues. Notably, at one point, he says that Apple Platform brings in the most money to Patreon. So there, looks like Apple brings in the money…

> Importantly at one point he says that Apple lpatform brings in the most money to Patreon.

I'm not surprised.

The dirty little secret people won't talk about is that monetizing anything is so much easier on iOS because Apple users have, in some combination, more disposable income to offer, and are more willing to spend money.

This has been the elephant in the room for my entire career, almost 11 years working in apps. Monetizing on Apple is easier. Getting Apple users to put down money for good software is easier, and Apple users will pay more for the software they want.

There's a lot of reasons for this, many of them socioeconomic in nature that mark out the differences between your average iPhone user and your average Android user, and I don't want to get into that quagmire and be called elitist: all I'm saying is, when Patreon says the vast majority of patrons are buying from iOS powered devices, between iOS being easier to monetize and the general populace being on their phones far more than their computers; yeah that makes complete fucking sense to me. I believe him.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#525

Post by ThatPlayer »

mcguire wrote: post #396
omoikane wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that Patreon does not use Google's payment system and isn't subject to a cut of the revenue. This is why the article says "Your prices on the web and the Android app will remain completely unaffected".

You are aware that you cannot purchase ebooks through the Amazon apps on Android, right? What you say may be true today, but tomorrow is unknown territory as far as these sorts of agreements go.

I can purchase ebooks on my Amazon Kindle Fire that runs Amazon apps on Android fine.

I bet I would also be able to purchase ebooks on the Amazon Kindle app installed from the Amazon Appstore on my Google Pixel phone.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#526

Post by iteria »

riku_iki wrote: post #516
danShumway wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets brought up a lot in conversations about Apple. In one sense, I agree with it. Patreon is a rent-seeking middleman who abuses network effects. 100%. But the creators on Patreon who's income are going to be most affected by this don't care about which side of the debate is more likeable to you, and I'm kind of sick of pretending that policies that affect a huge swath of people (often people with limited optio…

I am wondering why Apple and Patreon even a thing in this market. Most of the content is distributed through Youtube, so Google can just step in, create patreon interface and cut both of them, get some extra revenue, and be a good guy.

Because not everything is distributed on YouTube. I support writers and artists on patreon. That's the bulk of what I support. Even if we say Google, youtube creators already complain about youtube and how it squeezes them so is it really better? Youtube even has a patreon like thing, but creators prefer to diversify the platforms they are on. Especially if, as is common, what they are selling on patreon are things that aren't allowed on youtube.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#527

Post by danShumway »

riku_iki wrote: post #516
danShumway wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets brought up a lot in conversations about Apple. In one sense, I agree with it. Patreon is a rent-seeking middleman who abuses network effects. 100%. But the creators on Patreon who's income are going to be most affected by this don't care about which side of the debate is more likeable to you, and I'm kind of sick of pretending that policies that affect a huge swath of people (often people with limited optio…

I am wondering why Apple and Patreon even a thing in this market. Most of the content is distributed through Youtube, so Google can just step in, create patreon interface and cut both of them, get some extra revenue, and be a good guy.

:shrug: It would be nice to have alternatives, like you say, it's not like Patreon is particularly good at this. I understand that payment processing is kind of hellish to deal with, but that wouldn't be a barrier to a company the size of Apple/Google.

Internet payments/subscription platforms are in desperate need of more competition, even partial competition.

I thought for a while that Youtube was experimenting with paid subscribers? But it's possible that I misunderstood or that Google just got bored and abandoned it.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#528

Post by stahtops »

jjcm wrote: post #233

In my eyes the most egregious aspect of this is it’s a financial transaction between two people that they’re taking a 30% cut of. I see 30% as fine for things like IAP for digital games and such, but somehow in this lens it feels wrong. One proposal for a compromise that would feel fair: Apple gets 30% of the app creator’s take rate. IE if patreon’s take rate is 8%, Apple should get 30% of that , not 30% of the full…

Developer + Guitarist makes an iOS app and sells $10/mo subscriptions to their guitar tabs in it.

Guitarist sells $10/mo subscriptions to their guitar tabs through the Patreon app.

Why should these be considered any different?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#529

Post by tetrisgm »

bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

Any chance we could chat about how per creation works? I'm working on a competitor. @shokuonproduct / "shokunin." On discord

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#530

Post by [deleted] »

gretch wrote: post #523
brigadier132 wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fair is what two consenting adults agree to in the market place. This has been known to not be true since capitalism was first conceived. I am the biggest free market capitalism proponent and what apple has on their app store is not free market capitalism, its pure rent seeking. Apple users should be able to decide what software and stores run on the device that they own.

> Apple users should be able to decide what software and stores run on the device that they own. They do decide, right when they buy their phone.

[deleted]
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