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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#361

Post by kmeisthax »

dannyobrien wrote: post #248
bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

I don't understand why Patreon has to drop the per-creation model. Can they not just not offer that on iOS, and continue it on other platforms? (Perhaps with a "convert from susbcription to per-creation" feature online?)

From the article:

> Apple has also made clear that if creators on Patreon continue to use unsupported billing models or disable transactions in the iOS app, we will be at risk of having the entire app removed from their App Store.

In other words, every Patreon creator has to be billable through iOS App Store or you get kicked off.

Someone should get the FTC or EU involved. This is beyond the pale.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#362

Post by [deleted] »

AlexandrB wrote: post #249
bkraz wrote: post #80

As a longtime YouTube creator who uses Patreon for financial support, the news is terrible: Patreon informed me that all creators must switch to a monthly subscription schedule instead of the per-creation schedule that I and many other currently use. The whole point of per-creation is that it allows me to take time off, and only charge people when I release something, thus incentivizing me, and being fair to my suppo…

Apple has quietly been one of the biggest culprits in the proliferation of subscription software. They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. Subscriptions are also the easiest way to implement a software demo or trial in the App Store. Finally they use their control of the App Store to coerce anyone doing something different than monthly/yearly subscriptions into that model (as we see here). It sucks big time…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#363

Post by [deleted] »

daniel_reetz wrote: post #342
AlexandrB wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has quietly been one of the biggest culprits in the proliferation of subscription software. They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. Subscriptions are also the easiest way to implement a software demo or trial in the App Store. Finally they use their control of the App Store to coerce anyone doing something different than monthly/yearly subscriptions into that model (as we see here). It sucks big time…

Don't forget censorship/banning of nude images. The tumblr fiasco (among others) was their doing.

[deleted]

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#364

Post by kmeisthax »

omoikane wrote: post #235
heavyset_go wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google forces apps on the Play Store to use Google's payment methods and give them a 15% to 30% cut of revenue, as well. You can sideload, but the duopoly exists and they're shaking 99.9% of users down for every dime they can get out of them.

My understanding is that Patreon does not use Google's payment system and isn't subject to a cut of the revenue. This is why the article says "Your prices on the web and the Android app will remain completely unaffected".

At least until 2025 when Google implements the exact same policy change. Every questionable hardware choice Apple does is something Android vendors or Google Play copies within a year.

Remember when Samsung made fun of Apple for removing the headphone jack?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#366

Post by zombiwoof »

baby wrote: post #312
AlexandrB wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has quietly been one of the biggest culprits in the proliferation of subscription software. They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. Subscriptions are also the easiest way to implement a software demo or trial in the App Store. Finally they use their control of the App Store to coerce anyone doing something different than monthly/yearly subscriptions into that model (as we see here). It sucks big time…

I really hate how the current pattern is 1. Download seemingly cool app on iOS (free with potential payments) 2. Go through a 30min quizz 3. Required to subscribe for $150/year to start using the app It’s not free, it’s false advertising

Yeah I hate how to get Logic Pro on my iPad I have to subscribe not purchase

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#367

Post by danShumway »

bluGill wrote: post #242
danShumway wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When was the last time you bought any large item from a physical store that didn't come with advertisements in the packaging for direct services? If you buy a Disney DVD from Walmart, there will be advertisements inside the DVD case for direct services (heck, last time I checked there were ads on the outside of the case). If you buy a Roomba from Walmart, there will be advertisements for direct parts and addons from…

Looks close - those services are typically not the same as what you can get at Walmart. You can get parts, but often the device itself isn't sold (instead they list places you can buy). Or if you can buy direct it is cheaper from Walmart. Walmart is a large enough customer that they won't let you sell it for less (either you don't undercut Walmart, or you will sell zero at Walmart).

> those services are typically not the same as what you can get at Walmart.

Several things:

A) Apple doesn't sell a creator subscription service that's the same as what you can get from Patreon.

B) You can advertise inside of a box for services that Walmart does provide (yes, that includes devices).

C) Is your implication that if Walmart did open up a music streaming service that suddenly it would be improper for iOS to advertise Apple Music on devices purchased from Walmart? Because that's a wild thing to suggest.

D) Just re-stating B more directly: Apple advertises direct hardware purchases from the physical Apple store - a direct competitor to Walmart's tech hardware sales - for hardware that Walmart actively sells. And Apple advertises that hardware on devices and within packaging for devices that are bought from Walmart.

Apple's website homepage for the iPad has in big block letters halfway down the page: "Why Apple is the best place to buy iPad." Under Apple's rules, they would not be able to link to this page within an iOS app.

There is no equivalent to this in hardware land.

> Or if you can buy direct it is cheaper from Walmart.

I'm not going to drive over to Walmart to check this, but I severely doubt that Walmart is consistently offering all of its Apple hardware at a cheaper price than an Apple store.

> Walmart is a large enough customer that they won't let you sell it for less (either you don't undercut Walmart, or you will sell zero at Walmart).

Which is still egregious and anti-competitive! But amazingly, somehow less egregious than what Apple is doing. Ask yourself, how anti-competitive and abusive does a company have to be in order to be worse than Walmart? That's almost an accomplishment.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#368

Post by talldayo »

dangus wrote: post #64
talldayo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All it took was four years, an impending major redesign and a few class-action lawsuits over switch failures. Apple was definitely super responsive about that one. Or maybe it was their courage speaking.

While that's all very true, I find it notable to point out that the company stopped making butterfly keyboards 5 years ago. The folks out there that are still bitter about this really need to find something else to occupy their mindspace. In related news, I just got my keyboard settlement check!

I'm not bringing it up apropos of nothing; it's evidence that Apple doesn't listen to blatant (and epistemically correct) outcry from their customers when they make a mistake. When the Butterfly keyboard released people were literally shocked; I remember getting messages from people asking if their Macbook keyboard shipped broken after the honeymoon phase wore off. There were SGA members on Twitter bemoaning how they hated their job on the new laptop; programmers everywhere plugging in USB-C keyboards to make their Starbucks workstation tolerable. It was inconceivable that you'd pay a price premium for thinness when all it got you was a miserable keyboard and thermal issues.

For crying out loud; you just got your settlement for a hardware flaw Apple doesn't admit exists 8 years after they shipped the flawed product. Mankind cannot sustain this pattern of business refusing to back-down from demonstrably harmful practices that their customers can identify and isolate. The Butterfly keyboard is a microcosm of how Apple ships deliberately flawed products in an attempt to market a solution they are exclusively qualified to sell. And despite all this, people still rush to Apple's aid like it's wrong to call them out for being so greedily obstinate. The reality distortion field is still in full effect.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#369

Post by shreddit »

xyst wrote: post #360

It’s odd how Apple picks and chooses where to enforce this requirement. Netflix has been using their own billing system for years, yet I can still download Netflix on iOS, tvOS app stores. Makes me wonder if there is an under the table deal between Netflix and Apple. On the topic of Patreon vs Apple. I am not a lawyer but this seems to have the same basis as the Epic Games vs Apple litigation.

AFAIK this is because you can not make changes to your subscription within the app. You have to visit the Netflix homepage. There is no “pay” button in Netflix, so they do not have to use apple’s payment system…

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#370

Post by __loam »

neilv wrote: post #125

Since at least the 1980s, IT had the concepts of "open systems" and "interoperation", to support market competition and innovation. And we later did things like the Web and other open standards. Then Apple comes along, and uses its market position as a hardware and OS vendor, to make a nonstandard software download thing that could've been a Web site. In parallel, Apple also made open-standards Web apps unattractive…

Apple is currently facing anti-trust action so it's not like regulators are sleeping on it.
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