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Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

news.patreon.com

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Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#271

Post by blue_dragon »

jp57 wrote: post #15

Why does Patreon need an app?

I agree with your sentiment. I tried the app a few years ago and found it offered nothing of value. Most content you can get by supporting an artist is best enjoyed outside the app anyway, like goodies they send in the mail or high-res art that looks better on a bigger screen.

The only use cases I can think of for an app are 1) Socializing with other supporters who support the same artist, and 2) Searching other creators on Patreon and discovering similar artists you could support.

But Patreon's social features were (still are?) terrible, which is why all the creators took their social communities to Discord instead. And ever since the beginning, Patreon has opposed adding search. So their app, to me, is totally worthless. I'm astonished they're still in business.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#272

Post by sschueller »

_han wrote: post #188

This is the most shocking part to me: > Apple has also made clear that if creators on Patreon […] disable transactions in the iOS app, we will be at risk of having the entire app removed from their App Store. Absolutely astounding that removing transactions from the platform could result in being removed.

How is the EU going to respond to this since it is literally blackmail with Apple's market dominance?

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#273

Post by mrweasel »

trvz wrote: post #213
jlarocco wrote: post #193

Why is there even a Patreon app? Should've sent people to the website. You bought into the platform, so you have to pay by their rules.

> Why is there even a Patreon app? Considering its tendency to overheat your phone even when displaying pure text posts, it's there so you can warm your hands in winter.

The Patreon website is equally shitty, at least it was when I last used it last year. Haven't tried the app though. So you hands should remain toasty.

But I do agree, why not just send Apple a big "fuck you" and create a really good mobile website?

Apple is still really pushing it with the 30%. I do agree that they should get cut, or straight up charge app developers a yearly fee for being in the App Store (which they already do with the developer licens), perhaps a smaller fee per update and a fee for using their subscriptions feature (which I do like as a consumer).

Patreon need to tread really carefully, because what Apple does not that different from Patreons own business model. Creators are similarly complaining about Patreons fees.

Still 30% is a lot, but I don't know what the actual cost of running the App Store is.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#274

Post by lenerdenator »

aftbit wrote: post #267
lenerdenator wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. Or they could just keep doing the thing that earns them the most money, which is what they're doing now.

I'm just saying, it's a strawman argument to claim that Apple is doing this to "protect users". That's what they want you to think, but they're actually doing this to make a massive amount of revenue at the cost of literally everyone in the market, users and creators alike. Edit: Econ 101 - the more inelastic the demand, the more the tax burden falls on consumers. One would assume that demand for Patreon is relativel…

The thing is, it does protect users, in some ways. It just happens to earn them a ridiculous amount of money too.

I'd prefer to see them cut the rate from 30%, because it doesn't give anyone that much value, but it does create some for the users of the App Store.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#275

Post by cyrnel »

bluGill wrote: post #225
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can they gain after losing 30% to Apple?

Patreon doesn't lose anything to Apple - they give creators on Patreon a choice - charge Apple users more to cover the 30%, or eat the loss. I don't know what Patreon's take is, they are going to take the same either way. However they know their customers and users will lose from this and it is good for them to look out for their customers (it doesn't costs them much)

Customers leave when prices rise above their willingness to pay. Some customers will realize on their own that they can bypass Apple's fee by subscribing through the browser, but most won't (since Apple forbids even mentioning this trick).

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#276

Post by datavirtue »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #13
_aavaa_ wrote: post #9

Absurd. What next, they want a 30% cut from me when I set up automatic payments for my credit card through the banks iOS app?

Yeah I can't understand why people think that inviting new middlemen into their transactions is acceptable. It's time to stop prostrating ourselves to these companies.

Because the people who truly value freedom are outliers, seen as weirdos.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#277

Post by saratogacx »

derefr wrote: post #255
AlexandrB wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has quietly been one of the biggest culprits in the proliferation of subscription software. They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. Subscriptions are also the easiest way to implement a software demo or trial in the App Store. Finally they use their control of the App Store to coerce anyone doing something different than monthly/yearly subscriptions into that model (as we see here). It sucks big time…

> They still don't support upgrades/upgrade pricing. What would this mean, exactly? You can sell people a demo→full-version permanent unlock as a one-time purchase, same as you can sell DLC in a game. And you can also have subscription tiers, where you get more features out of the higher tiers of subscriptions. And you can, in theory, freely mix these — e.g. charging someone a subscription for the base version, and t…

The model is the "old school" model for software sales.

The first version you sell to a user at full price and offer a discount for upgrading (something like 40% off). It lets the customer pick when they feel the value prop is worth the cost and lets you offer a loyalty incentive to the user.

Right now the choice is "keep paying for it to keep working" or "fully price for every upgrade".

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#278

Post by merlindru »

bluGill wrote: post #225
Jeff_Brown wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can they gain after losing 30% to Apple?

Patreon doesn't lose anything to Apple - they give creators on Patreon a choice - charge Apple users more to cover the 30%, or eat the loss. I don't know what Patreon's take is, they are going to take the same either way. However they know their customers and users will lose from this and it is good for them to look out for their customers (it doesn't costs them much)

But patreon earns off of those purchases, right? And since a 30% price increase deincentivizes purchases for customers, they'll have less purchases.

Or, of course, eating the 30% fee yourself deincentivizes you to use the platform (or upload content as regularly) if you opt for that one

I'd say it's a loss for everyone involved except for Apple. Since Apple now gets a cut from all transactions its hard for me to see this as anything else except hostile and arrogant

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#279

Post by standardUser »

lenerdenator wrote: post #202
albertopv wrote: post #155

I think one of the reasons Apple feels entitled to do this is almost monopolistic US market share. People should stop buying iPhones for this, but it's not hard to foreseen it won't happen.

Apple has a far from monopolistic US market share for mobile devices. They might be one of the largest single vendors, but if I want to go buy a new smartphone that has decent app and service support from the marketplace, I can absolutely do that without giving so much as a penny to Apple.

Apple has just over 60% of the US market share and employee a whole arsenal of tactics to create artificial friction with other platforms in order to increase that market share.

Re: Apple's requirements are about to hit creators and fans on Patreon

#280

Post by shrubble »

FireBeyond wrote: post #220
talldatethrow wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Ahh, an oncologist? Wait, no. Hmm: > The McDougall Program is a transformative and life-saving 12-day online medical program designed by Dr. McDougall. For over 35 years, this program has been helping individuals reverse chronic illness and take charge of their health. "chronic illness", very specific! And in only 12 days! Wow. Okay, it doesn't get any better when you get specific: Osteoporosis (no, you can't reverse…

My friend went on this diet, but wasn’t able to stay on it.

It did reduce his high blood pressure and he was able to go off the medication he was on.

He told me to look into it but I am not on any medication and am older than my friend; he dropped the issue when I pointed out that both of my parents had lived years longer than Dr. McDougall.

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