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OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

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Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#121

Post by iggldiggl »

jwagenet wrote: post #83
afavour wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like an ass just for saying it but I downloaded the iOS app at the map style is so… busy. Granted I’m in NYC so there’s a lot going on but it’s showing me every single bus stop (there are literally seven in a one block radius) and building outlines even when zoomed out. It’s very visually overwhelming. This is something Google and Apple Maps really nail, I hope OSM can too at some point.

IMO the default OSM tileset is terrible and the mapy set seems to be the same/similar. I guess it’s meant to show a lot of information, but the colors and patterns are noisy, the icons are too detailed, too many or too few things show up on the wrong layers. It’s been this way forever.

For me, it still beats Google by miles when I need an actual map to orient myself or get a feel for the geography of a place, as opposed to the map merely being a convenient sort-of-geographical background for navigation instructions or the result of a POI search.

Google doesn't always properly demarcate built-up areas, doesn't show forests, mistakes large-scale "Nature parks" for regular city parks and shades everything inside them in green, including complete towns and villages…

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#122

Post by ygra »

viscousviolin wrote: post #120
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use StreetComplete (mentioned elsewhere in this thread), and have added substantial amounts of data to my city. It just asks simple objective questions (Does this crosswalk have a light to tell pedestrians when to cross?). Very easy and quick to answer.

I installed it last night and their flow seems very simple, yeah. Does it allow you to, for example, add missing streets or paths that aren't marked as missing? Because it sounds like it only lets you contribute to things that are already marked as "needs more data"

StreetComplete is fairly limited in scope (which is a good thing, considering its focus on UX and doing that single thing really well).

But there are a bunch of more “expert” features, such as the overlays, which allow for more focused QA work. And there's also a way of recording a GPX trace for missing paths or streets that will be added as a note for others to add to the map (or yourself, just not from the same app). Just long-press the screen and you can start such a recording.

With the places or things overlays you can also add new POIs in a limited way. It's still not a full-fleded editor (and as mentioned before, I think it shouldn't be), but there are now ways of doing more edits that were not possible previously, while not altering the interaction that much.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#123

Post by hoseja »

jwagenet wrote: post #83
afavour wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like an ass just for saying it but I downloaded the iOS app at the map style is so… busy. Granted I’m in NYC so there’s a lot going on but it’s showing me every single bus stop (there are literally seven in a one block radius) and building outlines even when zoomed out. It’s very visually overwhelming. This is something Google and Apple Maps really nail, I hope OSM can too at some point.

IMO the default OSM tileset is terrible and the mapy set seems to be the same/similar. I guess it’s meant to show a lot of information, but the colors and patterns are noisy, the icons are too detailed, too many or too few things show up on the wrong layers. It’s been this way forever.

This sort of sentiment results in flat design.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#124

Post by mbirth »

habi wrote: post #113
IndySun wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use GoMap!!. It's comprehensive and a little clunky to use. I had not heard of streetcomplete. A quick suggests it is similar but a welcome alt.

StreetComplete is a gameified approach to updating details on OpenStreetMap, and only available on Android (for the moment: https://github.com/orgs/streetcomplete/projects/1 ). A good companion to Go Map!! (which is a nearly full-featured OSM editor app) is https://every-door.app/ , which is great for on-the-go stuff.

In the GoMap display settings (the “map” button above the big “+” button), you can enable “Quests” which is basically the same thing StreetComplete does. In GoMap you can even define your own “quests” for details to add.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#125

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

cletus wrote: post #64

I fully support the OSM effort. Interestingly, through OSM and even Apple Maps you see just how difficult it is to build a mapping dataset. One story I heard was that the Chinese government intentionally makes its published maps inaccurate by basically offsetting it by a few meters. I'm not sure if this is still current. I'm not sure of the reasoning. It's not like it would stop an invasion if the highway was a few m…

> You probably need to know where bike paths are

Which is famously something OSM does _much_ better than Google.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#126

Post by bdjsiqoocwk »

AlpineG wrote: post #87
Freak_NL wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other way around is where OpenStreetMap is faster though. With Google a road which is closed (or gone) for a longer while means someone has to report it and Google employees verify it. Doing this automatically based on traffic dropping to zero is not really possible, because the algorithm doesn't know why traffic is rerouted or for how long. This can take a while depending on the number of people reporting it to…

Google took about 6 months to accept my edit to an incorrectly named park near me. I took pictures of the signs as proof of course I could not submit them as evidence but a thought someone else would report it. In OSM I could change it in a few minutes and I am not very familiar with the tool.

I personally know someone with a similar story (small pedestrian path that existed in real life but missing from Google maps). He made the effort to flag it, provide proof etc etc.

What I told him was you guys be nuts to be spending your time to improve Google's product.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#127

Post by darthwalsh »

afavour wrote: post #99
beej71 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what you're asking here, but I think it's important to note that OSM's primary value is in its data, not in a human-consumable map. So if I could respectfully amend your request, I'd say I hope some third party can really nail this at some point. Organic Maps is pretty good, but I still need Google maps for a number of things. But even if that doesn't ever happen, the free OSM data is invaluable in a large numb…

> I think it's important to note that OSM's primary value is in its data, not in a human-consumable map I agree in theory but OSM does have a human consumable map. I think it’s in the projects interest for that default to be as good as it can be, rather than rely on third parties.

There's often discussions in the default OSM map renderer project[1] about what the goal of the project should be.

A lot of people have niche interests that they want implemented in the map, but that just looks busy to everybody else.

[1] https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#128

Post by habi »

mbirth wrote: post #124
habi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

StreetComplete is a gameified approach to updating details on OpenStreetMap, and only available on Android (for the moment: https://github.com/orgs/streetcomplete/projects/1 ). A good companion to Go Map!! (which is a nearly full-featured OSM editor app) is https://every-door.app/ , which is great for on-the-go stuff.

In the GoMap display settings (the “map” button above the big “+” button), you can enable “Quests” which is basically the same thing StreetComplete does. In GoMap you can even define your own “quests” for details to add.

Of course, I forgot (because I have them turned off). Thanks for reminding me.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#129

Post by kjkjadksj »

AlpineG wrote: post #87
Freak_NL wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other way around is where OpenStreetMap is faster though. With Google a road which is closed (or gone) for a longer while means someone has to report it and Google employees verify it. Doing this automatically based on traffic dropping to zero is not really possible, because the algorithm doesn't know why traffic is rerouted or for how long. This can take a while depending on the number of people reporting it to…

Google took about 6 months to accept my edit to an incorrectly named park near me. I took pictures of the signs as proof of course I could not submit them as evidence but a thought someone else would report it. In OSM I could change it in a few minutes and I am not very familiar with the tool.

Google has the private road of a local landfill labelled as a bike path. They label little paths in cemeteries as bike paths. Its a little embarrassing how much they rely on automatic data vs, you know, a cities own published bike network maps.

Re: OpenStreetMap Is Turning 20

#130

Post by viscousviolin »

ygra wrote: post #122
viscousviolin wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I installed it last night and their flow seems very simple, yeah. Does it allow you to, for example, add missing streets or paths that aren't marked as missing? Because it sounds like it only lets you contribute to things that are already marked as "needs more data"

StreetComplete is fairly limited in scope (which is a good thing, considering its focus on UX and doing that single thing really well). But there are a bunch of more “expert” features, such as the overlays, which allow for more focused QA work. And there's also a way of recording a GPX trace for missing paths or streets that will be added as a note for others to add to the map (or yourself, just not from the same app…

Yeah it feels like having a very focused editor with a polished workflow could help OSM get more people to contribute, although it would be very nice to maybe have an advanced mode I imagine. Places get new neighbourhoods all the time so it would be great to be able to rigourously modify maps from the same place you contribute from otherwise, although maybe a desktop experience would be much better for this.

I've noticed StreetComplete focuses on details to fill in an already existing street layout, which makes it feel like there are clearly separated stages to the mapping process. First get the basic layout down, then fill in more details like zoning and buildings, and then more details. I like the idea of that so far.

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