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What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

penguin.co.uk

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Re: What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

#41

Post by ryanar »

trescenzi wrote: post #24
captn3m0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Memory of Light (last book in Wheel of Time) has a single chapter at 79000 words. Quote from the author about the chapter: > The chapter is just shy of 79,000 words. It contains (by my quick count) 72 scenes–but only 31 distinct viewpoints, as numerous ones repeat.

I need to actually finish these. Robert Jordan passing and, at the time, me having no clue who Brandon Sanderson was, meant I stalled out. But now that I know how incredible Sanderson is, and the TV show seems like it’s actually solid I’ve recently been toying with the idea of reading them all through. I love the insanity of that quote. Sanderson has an awesome ability to write things like a chapter with a dozen view…

I read through the wheel of time last year and enjoyed it. It is a commitment, I think the series slows down a ton and then Sanderson comes in and it picks up, and it was amazing to see all the building of plots see their conclusions. So it is well worth the journey.

Re: What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

#42

Post by GeoAtreides »

sebastiennight wrote: post #27

When I was re-writing one of my books in 2016, I spent the whole summer asking successful entrepreneurs (my reader audience) what was their favorite business book, and why. It turned out that the "favorite book" answer was fairly varied (aside from a couple of big-name bestsellers), but the "why" answer almost always revolved around: - "bite-size chapters" - "really quick read" - "short and to the point" - "one idea,…

happy for you you got that bag, but oh my god do I weep for mankind

tiktok and its ilk surely did a number on our collective attention spans (and along with it the capability for nuanced and complex reasoning)

Re: What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

#43

Post by SllX »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #42
sebastiennight wrote: post #27

When I was re-writing one of my books in 2016, I spent the whole summer asking successful entrepreneurs (my reader audience) what was their favorite business book, and why. It turned out that the "favorite book" answer was fairly varied (aside from a couple of big-name bestsellers), but the "why" answer almost always revolved around: - "bite-size chapters" - "really quick read" - "short and to the point" - "one idea,…

happy for you you got that bag, but oh my god do I weep for mankind tiktok and its ilk surely did a number on our collective attention spans (and along with it the capability for nuanced and complex reasoning)

Nah, most business books or “ideas” books really are too long. Something I used to do when I was interested in a book is I would go to the local book store, skim the introduction and chapter listings to get a feel for the book, find the chapter that had the same name of the book and just read that. Never walked away feeling like I didn’t get the author’s main idea, and usually most of the rest of the book is trying to pre-sell it and examples of where to apply their idea. Maybe some anecdotes about how it helped them in their life or how other people do it too.

Re: What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

#44

Post by taneq »

trescenzi wrote: post #24
captn3m0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Memory of Light (last book in Wheel of Time) has a single chapter at 79000 words. Quote from the author about the chapter: > The chapter is just shy of 79,000 words. It contains (by my quick count) 72 scenes–but only 31 distinct viewpoints, as numerous ones repeat.

I need to actually finish these. Robert Jordan passing and, at the time, me having no clue who Brandon Sanderson was, meant I stalled out. But now that I know how incredible Sanderson is, and the TV show seems like it’s actually solid I’ve recently been toying with the idea of reading them all through. I love the insanity of that quote. Sanderson has an awesome ability to write things like a chapter with a dozen view…

I waited eagerly for Crossroads of Twilight, read it, found that it STILL didn't address the events at the end of book 8, at ALL, closed it and never went back. I've heard the new ones started advancing the story again but I just... couldn't.

Re: What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

#45

Post by sien »

sambeau wrote: post #22

I am writing children's books. One mantra I try to keep to is to make my chapters ~15 minutes long when read aloud by a parent at bed time. This gives them the ability to be consistent in their bedtime routine. This way children don't get short-changed and adults don't find they have committed to something they can't get out of. It also allows them to easily give in and do another chapter — after all, it's only 15 mi…

I read mostly on the Kindle and appreciate shorter chapters just for general reading.

If you read before bed it's handy to know that a chapter has, say 8 minutes to go.

Re: What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

#46

Post by over_bridge »

taneq wrote: post #44
trescenzi wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I need to actually finish these. Robert Jordan passing and, at the time, me having no clue who Brandon Sanderson was, meant I stalled out. But now that I know how incredible Sanderson is, and the TV show seems like it’s actually solid I’ve recently been toying with the idea of reading them all through. I love the insanity of that quote. Sanderson has an awesome ability to write things like a chapter with a dozen view…

I waited eagerly for Crossroads of Twilight, read it, found that it STILL didn't address the events at the end of book 8, at ALL, closed it and never went back. I've heard the new ones started advancing the story again but I just... couldn't.

Skip Crossroads of Twilight. Read the summary on Wikipedia. It's a gimmick that covers the same day and events from lots of different perspectives. None of them are good. That book serves as a slap in the face for the author who made a course correction for book 11 and got it back on track. Then Sanderson naturally has a faster pace than Jordan and brings it home strong. 11-14 are great again for those who survive 7-10.

Re: What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

#47

Post by sandspar »

beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #29
passion__desire wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanities department generally / traditionally haven't believed in insights that come from mathematics.

I wouldn't say "believe" is the most accurate way to describe it. They're just very skeptical of the insights from statistical analysis of works in the mediums because there usually aren't very good large data sources. Cinemetrics.lv was amazing before the domain was stolen and had a large community of film academics using it. In literature, a big problem has been the way that publishers do not allow access to any of…

>Humanities aren't interested in math because it isn't useful for them.

Or they just don't understand it. ~115 IQ field vs ~130 IQ field.

Re: What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

#48

Post by passion__desire »

beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #29
passion__desire wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humanities department generally / traditionally haven't believed in insights that come from mathematics.

I wouldn't say "believe" is the most accurate way to describe it. They're just very skeptical of the insights from statistical analysis of works in the mediums because there usually aren't very good large data sources. Cinemetrics.lv was amazing before the domain was stolen and had a large community of film academics using it. In literature, a big problem has been the way that publishers do not allow access to any of…

Computer has become accessible only last 1-2 decades. (Python) Libraries which allow for easy computation of stats have been popular for far less than that. (Wide availability of) People experienced with such methods having been around for even less. So I can understand why outsiders won't bother themselves with using mathematics to find insights.

Re: What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

#49

Post by gamblor956 »

trescenzi wrote: post #24
captn3m0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Memory of Light (last book in Wheel of Time) has a single chapter at 79000 words. Quote from the author about the chapter: > The chapter is just shy of 79,000 words. It contains (by my quick count) 72 scenes–but only 31 distinct viewpoints, as numerous ones repeat.

I need to actually finish these. Robert Jordan passing and, at the time, me having no clue who Brandon Sanderson was, meant I stalled out. But now that I know how incredible Sanderson is, and the TV show seems like it’s actually solid I’ve recently been toying with the idea of reading them all through. I love the insanity of that quote. Sanderson has an awesome ability to write things like a chapter with a dozen view…

Most WoT fans skip books 4-14 when they reread them because nothing happens except a bunch of women smooth their dresses and tug on their hair.

You'll understand what I mean by this once you've read the books...

Sanderson also does a horrible job of wrapping up the series. I won't spoil it but there's a 50/50 chance that you will regret investing time in reading the series once you get to the end. This isn't entirely Sanderson's fault; he only wrote the final 3 novels based on the outline he was given by Jordan's widow. Unfortunately, Jordan did not wrap up all of the story lines in the outline and Sanderson makes not attempt to do so.

Re: What is the ideal chapter length? (2023)

#50

Post by watwut »

passion__desire wrote: post #12
jll29 wrote: post #10

I was hoping for some statistics about avg. (mean, mode) chapter length, and changes over time, given that this post comes from Penguin, who have plenty of data at their fingertips. Still, an interesting blog post.

Humanities department generally / traditionally haven't believed in insights that come from mathematics.

A lot of bad science consist on applying math on subjective things with unclear definitions (ideal chapter) and then insisting that this is useful. You then end up with ridiculousness like a guy from IT insisting that widely popular and simultaneously critically acclaimed book is actually bad, because it does not conform to whatever random statistics he misapplied.
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