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Lawsuit between origami enthusiasts unfolds

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Re: Lawsuit between origami enthusiasts unfolds

#21

Post by ChuckMcM »

lotharbot wrote: post #6

For reference, Robert Lang is not just some origami guy who happens to use computers; he's one of the foremost origami-math guys [0] and one of the pioneers in computer-designed origami. In his books, he typically has both detailed step-by-step instructions for each model, as well as an "overview" image that shows where all of the creases will end up on the original sheet of paper (seen in image 3 and 7 at the top of…

I think Lang is going to lose, and here is why.

The artist looked at his crease patterns and painted them. His work created color symmetries in a field of symmetries. The colors bring their own message to the art. Had he taken a couple of Lang's folded animals (or folded one himself or had it folded) then set it on a table with some fruit or even by itself, painted it as 'still' art, the artist has created new art.

When you paint a scene in the park, and you paint in the people who are sitting around enjoying the park, you don't have to get signed releases from them to paint them into your painting, even if someone who was at the park might recognize themselves or someone they know by a particular geometry that person has and what they were wearing that day.

My belief is that no jury in the world is going to look at Lang's actual folded stuff, and see this abstract pattern stuff, and say there was infringement.

Re: Lawsuit between origami enthusiasts unfolds

#22

Post by SoftwareMaven »

Going through the actual complaint (http://bayoaklaw.com/FAC.pdf) shows 20 complaints from various origami artists. Each one is obviously taken from the origami designs, but each one is significantly transformed by the painter. I would call this fair use.

Our cultural heritage is being strangled enough due to overly strict copyright. We don't need to add to it.

Re: Lawsuit between origami enthusiasts unfolds

#23

Post by SoftwareMaven »

aston wrote: post #11

This debate reminds me of the battle over an 8-bit remix of the cover of Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" [1]. The discussion here at that time [2] was strongly in favor of the person doing the repurposing, with folks bemoaning the fact that the original photographer would (ab)use the legal system for such a trivial matter. Why is everyone now on the side of the original content creator, despite the fact that (unlike "Kin…

I think it's because of a subtle bias for whichever side was generated by computers. In this case, the origami designs are made using software, so they "should" be protected.

Re: Lawsuit between origami enthusiasts unfolds

#25

Post by gmcrews »

I see no difference in a visual representation of a crease pattern and a photograph of one. So I would treat the suit just like any case where a photographer believes an artist has made a derivative work from his photograph. Usually, an abstract painter would not be concerned with such things, and so maybe that is why she is having a problem understanding the crease pattern author's complaint.

Re: Lawsuit between origami enthusiasts unfolds

#26

Post by ForrestN »

As a person who spends all day looking at contemporary art as my job, everyone in my field considers this lawsuit totally insane. The way Sarah Morris's audience (and she has a very big one) approaches her work has absolutely nothing to do with the way Lang's work is approached. Unless origami masters are using terms like "endgame", "the death of painting," or "the history of abstraction."

Fine art is really about invisible distinctions between existing objects, the difference between Duchamp's urinal and any other urinal. Contextualizing something in a contemporary art museum, even a much more direct appropriation than this, radically transforms it. In my view, applying intellectual property violations to contemporary artworks is at least as insane as any of the software patent shenanigans we have seen. No one is happening upon Morris's work and thinking she is a great origami designer.

Re: Lawsuit between origami enthusiasts unfolds

#27

Post by xstuffd »

aston wrote: post #11

This debate reminds me of the battle over an 8-bit remix of the cover of Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" [1]. The discussion here at that time [2] was strongly in favor of the person doing the repurposing, with folks bemoaning the fact that the original photographer would (ab)use the legal system for such a trivial matter. Why is everyone now on the side of the original content creator, despite the fact that (unlike "Kin…

Take a look at the "transformations." Seriously, at least give credit where credit is due. This is flagrant, and isn't about "the evils of copyright." Don't be lazy, do your research!

Re: Lawsuit between origami enthusiasts unfolds

#28

Post by danso »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #21
lotharbot wrote: post #6

For reference, Robert Lang is not just some origami guy who happens to use computers; he's one of the foremost origami-math guys [0] and one of the pioneers in computer-designed origami. In his books, he typically has both detailed step-by-step instructions for each model, as well as an "overview" image that shows where all of the creases will end up on the original sheet of paper (seen in image 3 and 7 at the top of…

I think Lang is going to lose, and here is why. The artist looked at his crease patterns and painted them. His work created color symmetries in a field of symmetries. The colors bring their own message to the art. Had he taken a couple of Lang's folded animals (or folded one himself or had it folded) then set it on a table with some fruit or even by itself, painted it as 'still' art, the artist has created new art. W…

In the US, you can take a recognizable photo and benefit from its exhibition as well.

Re: Lawsuit between origami enthusiasts unfolds

#29

Post by jamesbritt »

ForrestN wrote: post #26

As a person who spends all day looking at contemporary art as my job, everyone in my field considers this lawsuit totally insane. The way Sarah Morris's audience (and she has a very big one) approaches her work has absolutely nothing to do with the way Lang's work is approached. Unless origami masters are using terms like "endgame", "the death of painting," or "the history of abstraction." Fine art is really about in…

Who decides when something is fine art?

Why would that give someone a pass on copyright law that would, were the copy not deemed fine art, get someone in a mess of legal trouble?

I see a weird connection here with claims of exemptions to copyright violations from people saying that the avi file they have is really just a very large integer.

Re: Lawsuit between origami enthusiasts unfolds

#30

Post by lotharbot »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #22

Going through the actual complaint ( http://bayoaklaw.com/FAC.pdf ) shows 20 complaints from various origami artists. Each one is obviously taken from the origami designs, but each one is significantly transformed by the painter. I would call this fair use. Our cultural heritage is being strangled enough due to overly strict copyright. We don't need to add to it.

Sections 27-28 outline an important part of the complaint:

[fragmented quote] Morris has claimed in interviews and promotional materials that the Origami series is based on "found diagrams,” "found designs,” and "traditional origami diagrams.” ..... Morris has created confusion as to the authorship of Plaintiffs’ Works [/quote]

Copyright law explicitly grants rights holders the right to be credited for their work. So even if the concept of "transformativeness" [0] holds (which I'm not convinced of), I suspect Morris' failure to credit the original authors will be ruled as a violation of copyright.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformativeness

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