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A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

roitman.io

101–110 of 352 posts

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#101

He wouldn't be speaking like this if he was born on Mars.

I thought they key insight of this article was if he were born on Mars, then the meter would have been defined differently so that gravity would still be 9.8 m/s^2.

I think what you meant to say was that he wouldn't be speaking like this if people were born with 3 fingers.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing units in Electrodynamics for instance comes with unexpected factors in formulas though, indeed containing π. (CGS SI)

Isn't that just the change between rad/s and Hz?

It is more involving [1]

[1] https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Electricity_and_Magn...

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#103
post #29
post #20

Sorry to ruin the party, but g is a quite random number, on other planets the corresponding acceleration is different. So π^2~g is a pure coincidence and not relevant. The Newtonian gravitational constant G is a real constant btw.

Have you read the article? The point is that the definition of the metre, which is used in g, originates from the length of a pendulum that swings once per second in the gravity field around Paris. So it is a matter of definitions, and the length of the metre originates from the duration of the second and the Earth's gravity field. The definitions of 1/40.000 of the Earth's circumference or ~1/300.000.000 of a light…

I have to admit I only read half of the article. Even if there is some historical fact there (but it was not mentioned at the beginning of the article), from a physical standpoint this comparison is already dimensionally wrong and also coincidentally only correct if you choose appropriate units. That was the point I was trying to make. There is not anything "deep" here.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#104

This is interesting, but I have to quibble with this: > If you express this value in any other units, the magic immediately disappears. So, this is no coincidence Ordinarily, this would be extremely indicative of a coincidence. If you’re looking for a heuristic for non-coincidences, “sticks around when you change units” is the one you want. This is just an unusual case where that heuristic fails.

Doesn't the relationship hold if we change units? It seems like it must. When I worked with electric water pumps I loved that power can be easily calculates from electrical, mechanical, and fluid measurements in the same way if you use the right units. Volts Amps, torque rad/sec, pressure*flow_rate all give watts.

This is not quite the same situation, as you are calculating a value having a dimension (that of power, or energy per second) three different ways using a single consistent system of units, and getting a result demonstrating / conforming to the conservation of energy. If you were to perform one of these calculations in British imperial units (such as from pressure in stones per square hand and rate of flow in slugs per fortnight) you would get a different numerical value (I think!) that nonetheless represents the same power expressed in different units. The article, however, is discussing a dimensionless ratio between a dimensionless constant and a physical measurement that is specific to one particular planet.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#105

This is interesting, but I have to quibble with this: > If you express this value in any other units, the magic immediately disappears. So, this is no coincidence Ordinarily, this would be extremely indicative of a coincidence. If you’re looking for a heuristic for non-coincidences, “sticks around when you change units” is the one you want. This is just an unusual case where that heuristic fails.

The "magic" doesn't disappear in "any" other units.

Period = 2π√(length/g)

So the "magic" holds in any units where the unit of time is the period of a pendulum with unit length.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#106

> Sometimes that was even useful. If you needed to buy more cloth, you'd call the tallest person in the village and have them measure the fabric with their cubits. I highly doubt this bit of strategy would have worked with sellers of said fabric. They may have not had formal measurements but they weren't stupid either.

I find this comment delightfully ironic in a contemporary moment of blatant shrinkflation.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no, the whole equation boils down to the definition of meter. Or rather, one of the earlier definitions.

Yeah, I read the post. What I’m saying is “this relationship vanishes when you change units, so it must not be a coincidence” is a bad way to check for non-coincidences in general. For example, the speed of sound is almost exactly 3/4 cubits per millisecond. Why is it such a nice fraction? The magic disappears if you change units… (of course, I just spammed units at wolfram alpha until I found something mildly intere…

Or the speed of light being almost a sweet 300 million m/s.

Or after-atmosphere insolation being somewhat on average 1kw/m2.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the relationship hold if we change units? It seems like it must. When I worked with electric water pumps I loved that power can be easily calculates from electrical, mechanical, and fluid measurements in the same way if you use the right units. Volts Amps, torque rad/sec, pressure*flow_rate all give watts.

No, the equality requires the length of a 2 second period pendulum be g / pi^2. Change your definition of length - that no longer holds true. g in imperial units is 32 after all. g has units; pi does not

A more natural way to say it is that equality requires that the unit of length is the length of an arbitrary pendulum and the unit of time is the half-period of the same pendulum.

The pendulum is a device that relates pi to gravity.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#110

This is interesting, but I have to quibble with this: > If you express this value in any other units, the magic immediately disappears. So, this is no coincidence Ordinarily, this would be extremely indicative of a coincidence. If you’re looking for a heuristic for non-coincidences, “sticks around when you change units” is the one you want. This is just an unusual case where that heuristic fails.

It’s really the best and only way to find non-coincidences involving the definition of units, though. All such non-coincidences will have this property
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