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Jake Seliger has died

marginalrevolution.com

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Re: Jake Seliger has died

#191

Post by bena »

ETH_start wrote: post #182
bena wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really the perspective I'm coming from. When I say the answer isn't to let terminal patients take whatever they feel like, it's to say that they shouldn't be the one to make the decision that a developing drug is safe enough for them to trial. Just because one is terminal, it does not make one an expert in medicine or pharmaceuticals. So it shouldn't be used an exception to the processes in place.

I don't understand this. Society at large supports assisted suicide and a host of other personal choices that unquestionably harm the health of the person making them. Why draw a line at potential treatments for illnesses? Why can't someone choose to be a guinea pig for the sake of advancing the science? My guess is that consumer safety is being used as an excuse by those who want to control the market via regulatory…

Killing someone who is trying to live is a bit at odds with compassion.

Desperation can make us short-sighted and reckless. It’s why most people who are prevented from committing suicide often don’t try again. It’s an act of desperation. We shouldn’t allow drug companies to exploit desperate people.

Assisted suicide has several hurdles you have to jump through. You have to be completely sure from a sound state of mind.

Re: Jake Seliger has died

#193

Post by llamaimperative »

ETH_start wrote: post #181
llamaimperative wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly are you going to prove fraud without, you know, the clinical trial data that you've just allowed them not to produce in the first place? Fraud is one risk -- the much bigger one is well-intentioned people trying to save lives seeing positive outcomes where there aren't any.

You could require them to disclose that they have no clinical data proving efficacy while also allowing them to sell the drug.

You mean like supplements, which exist today?

Re: Jake Seliger has died

#194

Post by vinnyvichy »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #106
throwaway5752 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May Jake rest in peace and may his memory be a blessing to his wife and daughter. Their views on clinical trials were understandable given the circumstances. Those regulations were written in blood, miscarriage/birth defects, autoimmune conditions, genetic damage, and other horrors. This is a complicated ethical topic because clinical trials can harm patients and families of patients as much as they can help, and som…

> It's not an appropriate discussion in a memorial post. When else do we discuss it? This is bound to just disappear into history and the government will carry on with business as usual. I feel now’s the time to get people educated and discussing it at depth, when they care about it.

[flagged]

Re: Jake Seliger has died

#195

Post by crngefest »

yawboakye wrote: post #111
JohnMakin wrote: post #62

The craziest thing to me is he was still posting up to the very end. I've seen this multiple times in end-stage cancers, my grandfather's pancreatic cancer, he seemed "fine" (other than looking incredibly sick) til the last ~12 hours or so - he was even doing some yard work the day or two before he died. He knew the entire time how much time was left, too. I don't know why I find this so crazy, other than I hope I ne…

i’ve come to believe that we’re more terrified of a situation while we’re not in it. once in there, and especially when there’s no way out, our bodies make the necessary adjustments for the new normal. and soon our minds/being follow. it’s often characterized as extraordinary strength by onlookers when in fact the person going through the experience had no way out. in my mother tongue, we have a proverb which roughly…

IMHO it’s because in our imagination anything is possible, we can imagine the bad situation in more and more elaborate and complicated scenarios. And we can’t see beyond the bad situation.

While once we are in the situation we can do very practical things and have agency to react to and improve our situation.

I once read a French „practical philosopher“ who expressed it much better than me, but yea essentially the most terrifying situations are in our imagination.

Re: Jake Seliger has died

#196

Post by vinnyvichy »

dredmorbius wrote: post #178
vinnyvichy wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41175165 > Repeatedly posting the same content, and soliciting upvotes, both go against HN guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html >

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. Almost want to invite you to join the discussions between 082349872349872 and I.

I can take HN guidelines seriously, and still act in good faith, can I not :)?

Re: Jake Seliger has died

#197

Post by gessha »

vinnyvichy wrote: post #187
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t know Jake’s work, but I’m going on vacation tomorrow and this thread has moved me to get copies of his books and start reading them while I’m away. I’ll be thinking of your family as I make my way through them. I sincerely wish you and your daughter the best.

The writing of Jake's widow (e.g., on FDA reform) is worth reading too.

I assume the downvotes are because of the term “widow”, “partner” might be a better here.

Re: Jake Seliger has died

#198

Post by ETH_start »

bena wrote: post #191
ETH_start wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this. Society at large supports assisted suicide and a host of other personal choices that unquestionably harm the health of the person making them. Why draw a line at potential treatments for illnesses? Why can't someone choose to be a guinea pig for the sake of advancing the science? My guess is that consumer safety is being used as an excuse by those who want to control the market via regulatory…

Killing someone who is trying to live is a bit at odds with compassion. Desperation can make us short-sighted and reckless. It’s why most people who are prevented from committing suicide often don’t try again. It’s an act of desperation. We shouldn’t allow drug companies to exploit desperate people. Assisted suicide has several hurdles you have to jump through. You have to be completely sure from a sound state of min…

They're going to die anyway. This might give them a non-zero chance at survival, and at the very least let them contribute to medical science by being a test case for an experimental treatment.

Re: Jake Seliger has died

#199

Post by ETH_start »

llamaimperative wrote: post #193
ETH_start wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could require them to disclose that they have no clinical data proving efficacy while also allowing them to sell the drug.

You mean like supplements, which exist today?

Experimental drugs cannot be given freely like supplements.

Re: Jake Seliger has died

#200

Post by virgoerns »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #18
danielvaughn wrote: post #11

Reading his post was like a gut punch, and I didn't even know the guy. It breaks your heart to hear someone speak with certainty about their own demise, and to face it with such grace and clarity makes it all the more heart-wrenching. It sounds like he was with his family in his final moments, and I hope he wasn't in much pain. Rest in peace.

I can't remember where I read this, but it's always stuck with me: "Healthy is merely the slowest form of dying"

Your comment reminds me about Polish movie "Life as a Fatal Sexually Transmitted Disease", which is a story of a doctor dying from cancer. Some variations of this title were semi-popular in Poland in early 2000s.
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