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A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

roitman.io

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Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#61
Okay so this one has an explanation. But what about these ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_coincidence

See also this blog: https://martouf.ch/tag/coudee-royale-egyptienne/

One french royal cubit ≈ one egyptian cubit ≈ about π/6 meters. One royal span ≈ 1/5 meter = 20cm.

I'm wondering whether some of these coincidences could be explained by the anthropic principle, which deals with these quasi-equalities, for instance:

>An excited state of the 12C nucleus exists a little (0.3193 MeV) above the energy level of 8Be + 4He. This is necessary because the ground state of 12C is 7.3367 MeV below the energy of 8Be + 4He; a 8Be nucleus and a 4He nucleus cannot reasonably fuse directly into a ground-state 12C nucleus. However, 8Be and 4He use the kinetic energy of their collision to fuse into the excited 12C (kinetic energy supplies the additional 0.3193 MeV necessary to reach the excited state), which can then transition to its stable ground state. According to one calculation, the energy level of this excited state must be between about 7.3 MeV and 7.9 MeV to produce sufficient carbon for life to exist, and must be further "fine-tuned" to between 7.596 MeV and 7.716 MeV in order to produce the abundant level of 12C observed in nature.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-alpha_process#Improbabi...

The idea goes like this:

1. A more fundamental aspect under the anthropic principle which underpins the existence of complex life and intelligent observers is the quasi-alignment of values such as the fundamental constants in physics within a short margin.

2. If you consider the universe to be the product of a random sampling process over these constants (either real or virtual, it occurred many times or just once), and given the fact we exist, which implies an abundance of coincidences, the maths seem to tell us that we should expect to observe superfluous coincidences that are non-functional for the appearance of complex life, rather than the strictly minimal set of functional coincidences necessary for its emergence.

3. This implies that coincidences and pattern seeking are not just features (or bugs) of our complex minds but are present in the universe latently since it is not just fine-tuned for the emergence of complex life but for the presence of coincidences such as these https://medium.com/@sahil50/a-large-numbers-coincidence-299c....

4. It may be even testable by running computer experiments relying on genetic programming/symbolic regression to see whether there is something special about the value of physical constants in our universe when compared to the value they would have in other universes. I think such experiments should factor the fact that not all equations with the same mathematical complexity (number of operands and operators) have the same cognitive complexity. Indeed, if you look at the big equation in the link above, you'll remark that it can be further compressed into a/b = c/d (where a is the photon redshift radius for instance). So I guess you'd also have to throw into the mix Kolmogorov algorithmic complexity to assess this aspect (which is in fact used in some cognitive theories of relevance to tackle this kind of stuff to the tune of "simpler to describe than to generate")

Thoughts ?

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#62
post #35

If the definition of the meter is still wrong disallowing π² = g, how might this affect other calculations like for example thrust and in aerospace engineering?

And what would all other natural constants look like, had the meter kept the value derived from the length of the pendulum?

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#63
> Sometimes that was even useful. If you needed to buy more cloth, you'd call the tallest person in the village and have them measure the fabric with their cubits.

I highly doubt this bit of strategy would have worked with sellers of said fabric. They may have not had formal measurements but they weren't stupid either.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#65
Relatedly, I recommend reading "The Measure of All Things" by Ken Alder about the origins of the metric system and the first scientific conference ever. It is a surprisingly gripping read.

https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Measure-of-All-Th...

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#66
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I read the post. What I’m saying is “this relationship vanishes when you change units, so it must not be a coincidence” is a bad way to check for non-coincidences in general. For example, the speed of sound is almost exactly 3/4 cubits per millisecond. Why is it such a nice fraction? The magic disappears if you change units… (of course, I just spammed units at wolfram alpha until I found something mildly intere…

X^2 is a lot more interesting than x*0.0000743 or whatever it is

Why is it more interesting? Is it just more interesting because we use such bases, or can it be interesting inherently? That is the question that is being asked, and why some say it's merely a coincidence.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#68
post #59
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the cubit is a measure of what a body can reach

How does that explain the relationship to the speed of sound?

A bit out of topic, however

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xOGeZt71sg

Note: I'm more inclined to think this is a coincidence given that it establishes a link between the most commented text and the the most commented building in history. However I don't think these kind of relationships based on "magic thought" should be discarded right away just because they are coincidences, and I'd be very interested in an algorithm that automatically finds them.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#69

This is interesting, but I have to quibble with this: > If you express this value in any other units, the magic immediately disappears. So, this is no coincidence Ordinarily, this would be extremely indicative of a coincidence. If you’re looking for a heuristic for non-coincidences, “sticks around when you change units” is the one you want. This is just an unusual case where that heuristic fails.

Doesn't the relationship hold if we change units? It seems like it must.

When I worked with electric water pumps I loved that power can be easily calculates from electrical, mechanical, and fluid measurements in the same way if you use the right units. VoltsAmps, torquerad/sec, pressure*flow_rate all give watts.

Re: A wonderful coincidence or an expected connection: why π² ≈ g

#70
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the article? The point is that the definition of the metre, which is used in g, originates from the length of a pendulum that swings once per second in the gravity field around Paris. So it is a matter of definitions, and the length of the metre originates from the duration of the second and the Earth's gravity field. The definitions of 1/40.000 of the Earth's circumference or ~1/300.000.000 of a light…

My intuitive assumption, then, is that on Mars they would have come up with a different meter such that π² ≈ 10 "mars meters" / s². Or alternatively stated, that the Mars meter would be much shorter than Earth's meter if they used the same approach to defining it (pendulums and seconds).

A Martian meter defined by martians should relate their average size, the number of fingers they have on their hands and some basic measure of the planet.

I mean, one meter is defined as 1/10^7 of the distance between the equator and the poles which leads to a round number in base 10.

A unit system is not just something that matches objective reality but something that has some cognitive ergonomy.

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