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Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

jalopnik.com

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Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#81

Post by black6 »

ryandrake wrote: post #74
wongarsu wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not the only reasons to put people in jail. There is also 3. Deterring others from similar actions, and 4. Rehabilitation. Number 4 obviously doesn't apply in the US justice system, but number 3, deterrence, is imho the major argument for putting executives or employees in prison. The threat of punishment can be a strong motivator, especially in corporate settings. But it only works if punishments are actua…

Exactly, and the lack of deterrence is why corporate executives just do whatever they want as long as the fines aren't a significant amount compared to the profit from wrongdoing. I bet if prison time was actually on the table, we'd suddenly have corporate executives that acted ethically and within the law.

I think public floggings a la Starship Troopers would go a long way towards encouraging more social behavior. Much better than sending people to prison.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#82

Post by Xen9 »

ChocolateGod wrote: post #3

Boeing need to stop being given contracts, from the Starliner issues on top of the various scandals with the quality control of their planes, it's clear to see they have no value in human life.

They are a defense contractor. We should give them more contracts! Then they will fuck, and not get the defense contracts.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#83

Post by cameldrv »

stronglikedan wrote: post #51
teamspirit wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it feel like we don’t have criminal responsibility (well, accountability) here in the US? So much criminal wrongdoing and the company just pays a fine and everything continues as usual.

It doesn't feel like that. It is like that. Companies are their own entities, separate from the people that run them, and you can't put a company in jail. This muddies the water as to who can be held accountable and prosecuted.

Why can’t you put a company in jail?

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#85

Post by krapp »

cameldrv wrote: post #83
stronglikedan wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't feel like that. It is like that. Companies are their own entities, separate from the people that run them, and you can't put a company in jail. This muddies the water as to who can be held accountable and prosecuted.

Why can’t you put a company in jail?

Companies are abstract legal entities, separate from the people who run them. Companies don't have a physical form that can be arrested and locked in a cell.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#86

Post by [deleted] »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #77
eschneider wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for my users. And there are enough of them out there that if there was some incredibly rare problem that only happened in 1/50000 installs, you would be getting a lot of complaints. Seriously, this is something that can be made bulletproof, if one cares to.

Unless your users are hundreds of kilometers in space and at risk of decompression from something going wrong, then no, your stuff is nowhere near as risky.

[deleted]

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#87

Post by Gibbon1 »

wongarsu wrote: post #67
snotrockets wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting people in jail shouldn’t be an end goal. There are two reasons to jail a person: 1. Prohibit them from causing further harm. 2. Revenge. The latter, I hope were better than that. And to prohibit the possible offenders here, no need to jail them. Just forbid them from serving in capacity that can cause such harm: bar them from serving in executive or decision making role.

Those are not the only reasons to put people in jail. There is also 3. Deterring others from similar actions, and 4. Rehabilitation. Number 4 obviously doesn't apply in the US justice system, but number 3, deterrence, is imho the major argument for putting executives or employees in prison. The threat of punishment can be a strong motivator, especially in corporate settings. But it only works if punishments are actua…

The 0th reason to put people in jail is to show them an others who's boss.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#88

Post by eschneider »

btown wrote: post #60
eschneider wrote: post #34

How could they possibly screw up so badly that a SW update would brick the thing? Did they forget the logic to just reboot to last good/factory FW in case of failure? This feels like the story they're telling isn't the real story because that's just basic, basic shit that gets beaten on all the time during development.

A docking system has many, many moving parts under significant stress, and not all of them are tested under the assumption that arbitrary software could drive their positions/torques beyond assumed limits. You can’t factory-reset metal fatigue after it has happened. It’s quite reasonable for NASA to say “this OTA update has to be tested and QA’d to the most rigorous standards.”

Absolutely. But I don't believe that's the 'bricking' they referred to.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#90

Post by kkfx »

ActionHank wrote: post #15
ChocolateGod wrote: post #3

Boeing need to stop being given contracts, from the Starliner issues on top of the various scandals with the quality control of their planes, it's clear to see they have no value in human life.

Boeing execs should be held criminally accountable for their leadership that has resulted in this mess. People should be in prison.

You can't fix Boeing or any other industry with punishments, the flaw is in the financial system of all the west. Some companies suffer more, some less, but their fate will be the same.

A small example: most battery-powered hand tools (drills and co) use 18-21V lithium batteries, with the same connectors for all manufacturers, as a result you can buy some tools from one brand, some from others and swap batteries issueless. We do the very opposite, not only some vendors even insert a small "intelligence" in batteries to impede the use with tools not identify as belonging from the same registered buyer, formally "to avoid stealing" etc. Car parts are the same.

A working industrial system need open standards for interoperability and competition, need a universal school systems where most R&D are public and the private sector pick ideas from them. So marketed ideas are good for users, not for some vendors against their customers. We have had essentially that in the past, when all westerns economies was working well. We have abandoned that to fully go financial. Current state of thing where an entry level BEV from China cost ~9000€ in Thailand and the very ~40.000€ in the EU. We still have some high-tech dominance, but not for long and not without automotive and mid-tech mass industries in general. We can only recover ANNIHILATING private-public partnerships, putting back well funded public research based on research and development goals not short-term profits, stating clear to the private sector: you can loose talents for the public or starting to follow the new-old system.

This should been able to fix in a decade or so, if the WWWIII get postponed. In a shorter timeframe I doubt anything better than the current disaster could be done.

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