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Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

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71–80 of 104 posts

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#71

Boeing need to stop being given contracts, from the Starliner issues on top of the various scandals with the quality control of their planes, it's clear to see they have no value in human life.

If corporations are people, can't we execute the serial murderers ?

Human grief in, human relief out.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would that accomplish either of the two?

You are no longer dependent on the whims of a private company and its shareholders, but bring in the regulatory regime of public service. Also reduce costs as unlike private enterprise, public service need not provide fiscal revenues.

hm this seems to lack context

SpaceX has reduced costs of launching into space far greater than NASA, an already public service, has achieved. NASA's deeply inefficient costs have directly contributed to its budget being slashed and the disinterest in Congress for funding it further, it is subject to the political whims of being a public service and exacerbated by its uncompetitive spending pattern to achieve anything extraterrestrial.

The direction that the US Government is going is one to incentivize the private sector - yes, with its shareholders and all the trappings of capitalism - but with competition between multiple private enterprises. So far, the space industry is failing to have competition between multiple private enterprises, just because Boeing has poor quality control. But additional entrants into this sector are expected.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting people in jail shouldn’t be an end goal. There are two reasons to jail a person: 1. Prohibit them from causing further harm. 2. Revenge. The latter, I hope were better than that. And to prohibit the possible offenders here, no need to jail them. Just forbid them from serving in capacity that can cause such harm: bar them from serving in executive or decision making role.

Those are not the only reasons to put people in jail. There is also 3. Deterring others from similar actions, and 4. Rehabilitation. Number 4 obviously doesn't apply in the US justice system, but number 3, deterrence, is imho the major argument for putting executives or employees in prison. The threat of punishment can be a strong motivator, especially in corporate settings. But it only works if punishments are actua…

But deterrence doesn’t seem to work, does it?

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting people in jail shouldn’t be an end goal. There are two reasons to jail a person: 1. Prohibit them from causing further harm. 2. Revenge. The latter, I hope were better than that. And to prohibit the possible offenders here, no need to jail them. Just forbid them from serving in capacity that can cause such harm: bar them from serving in executive or decision making role.

Those are not the only reasons to put people in jail. There is also 3. Deterring others from similar actions, and 4. Rehabilitation. Number 4 obviously doesn't apply in the US justice system, but number 3, deterrence, is imho the major argument for putting executives or employees in prison. The threat of punishment can be a strong motivator, especially in corporate settings. But it only works if punishments are actua…

Exactly, and the lack of deterrence is why corporate executives just do whatever they want as long as the fines aren't a significant amount compared to the profit from wrongdoing. I bet if prison time was actually on the table, we'd suddenly have corporate executives that acted ethically and within the law.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are no longer dependent on the whims of a private company and its shareholders, but bring in the regulatory regime of public service. Also reduce costs as unlike private enterprise, public service need not provide fiscal revenues.

SpaceX isn't publicly traded, it already has no obligation to maximize profits. It is free to follow whichever goals Musk and the SpaceX investors set for the company. So far those goals mostly involve building cash cows in service of financing even higher goals. I'm not sure if that goal is still Mars, but whatever it is they are reinvesting everything and regularly take in more investments

A company is beholden to its shareholders. That the shareholder wants to make profits and funnel them to some other goal, is the same for non shareholders if they’d hoard that money like a dragon.

If it’s for public benefit, than let the public decide what the benefit be.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#76

Boeing need to stop being given contracts, from the Starliner issues on top of the various scandals with the quality control of their planes, it's clear to see they have no value in human life.

Boeing execs should be held criminally accountable for their leadership that has resulted in this mess. People should be in prison.

incompetence and poor leadership is not a crime.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your heavy equipment with impatient users is also magnitudes less catastrophic in the event of a failure.

Not for my users. And there are enough of them out there that if there was some incredibly rare problem that only happened in 1/50000 installs, you would be getting a lot of complaints. Seriously, this is something that can be made bulletproof, if one cares to.

Unless your users are hundreds of kilometers in space and at risk of decompression from something going wrong, then no, your stuff is nowhere near as risky.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not the only reasons to put people in jail. There is also 3. Deterring others from similar actions, and 4. Rehabilitation. Number 4 obviously doesn't apply in the US justice system, but number 3, deterrence, is imho the major argument for putting executives or employees in prison. The threat of punishment can be a strong motivator, especially in corporate settings. But it only works if punishments are actua…

But deterrence doesn’t seem to work, does it?

For executives? I'd hope so.

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#79
post #41

How could they possibly screw up so badly that a SW update would brick the thing? Did they forget the logic to just reboot to last good/factory FW in case of failure? This feels like the story they're telling isn't the real story because that's just basic, basic shit that gets beaten on all the time during development.

I think we're witnessing the enshittification of space.

are we? I know that word has "shit" in it, and this is a degredation of things, and so we want to use the new word so sound like we're cool and hip to the new lingo the kids are using, but the term, as coined by Cory Doctorow, refers to when a platform ends up in late stage capitalism and goes off extracting value from users at the cost of their experience. Like Facebook. Is that what's going on here, or is it just a more general things are shitty?

Re: Boeing Starliner could brick ISS docking port if crew abandons it

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpaceX isn't publicly traded, it already has no obligation to maximize profits. It is free to follow whichever goals Musk and the SpaceX investors set for the company. So far those goals mostly involve building cash cows in service of financing even higher goals. I'm not sure if that goal is still Mars, but whatever it is they are reinvesting everything and regularly take in more investments

A company is beholden to its shareholders. That the shareholder wants to make profits and funnel them to some other goal, is the same for non shareholders if they’d hoard that money like a dragon. If it’s for public benefit, than let the public decide what the benefit be.

I disagree with this line of thought. Spacex took a big risk to get to where they are, just because they happen to have pulled it off and it provides some “public benefit” doesn’t mean it should just be taken from them. And if it’s buy out that still doesn’t solve the problem because people value things completely differently.

This stifles innovation and the willingness to take on risk for a reward down the road. If you actually pull it off and reach some level of “public benefit” it could just be taken from you.

Is Amazons same day delivery of medications a “public benefit”?

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