Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New doctoral thesis proposes Buckminster Fuller was a 'charlatan'

research.aalto.fi

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–38 of 38 posts

Re: New doctoral thesis proposes Buckminster Fuller was a 'charlatan'

#31

Post by gumby »

As a teen I was quite taken by Fuller. Even back then I was smart enough to wonder why his ideas weren't incorporated in all the things around me (except the geodesic dome climbing structure in the schoolyard), and eventually put 2+2 together and figure that maybe his ideas weren't particularly great in practice. I think i was the "dymaxion car" that got me thinking.

It did help me develop some immunity to the conspiracy theorists who claimed that this or that invention was suppressed by "those forces" that wanted to thwart progress.

Re: New doctoral thesis proposes Buckminster Fuller was a 'charlatan'

#32

Post by drewcoo »

skhunted wrote: post #22
dominicq wrote: post #19

I find it silly that this could be a topic of a doctoral thesis. You're a doctor of what, of knowing whether Fuller was a charlatan? Charlatanry is extremely subjective, as is genius. I guess I could see this being a Twitter rant or something, but the whole premise - that this could even be an object of academic study - is unnatural to me.

Historians of science would be interested in the topic as would those studying the sociology of scientific communities. In this day of rampant pseudoscience and distrust of scientists it is of interest to know if and how fellow scientists were snookered. Intelligence agencies like to study and understand the propagation of false information.

> Historians of science would be interested in the topic as would those studying the sociology of scientific communities.

Except that Fuller wasn't a scientist and did not contribute in any way to science.

> In this day of rampant pseudoscience and distrust of scientists

Time would be better spent figuring out how evolutionary psychology manages to seem real today. We already have works on the phrenology of yesteryear.

> Intelligence agencies like to study and understand the propagation of false information.

I had no idea the CIA had an introspection department. Good for them!

Re: New doctoral thesis proposes Buckminster Fuller was a 'charlatan'

#33

Post by drewcoo »

_yb2s wrote: post #20

I've read a bunch of his books and found both his engineering and philosophical ideas deeply inspiring and useful in my work as an engineer and scientist and in my hobby as a sailor- his deep understanding of geometry and tension, etc. has allowed me to build novel sail rigs and systems. Fuller was awarded a huge number of patents on his inventions- and although mostly impractical, they are quite certainly new invent…

If the random Deepak Chopra generator included some trigonometry, we'd have Bucky Fuller.

http://www.wisdomofchopra.com

Without context, that can be inspiring. But that doesn't make it meaningful.

Re: New doctoral thesis proposes Buckminster Fuller was a 'charlatan'

#34

Post by drewcoo »

datavirtue wrote: post #13

Plenty of Buckminster fullers' work a farm and keep to themselves.

I once hitchhiked almost 2000 miles with a truck driver who had invented perpetual motion. "non-traditional science" flourishes everywhere there are people.

Re: New doctoral thesis proposes Buckminster Fuller was a 'charlatan'

#35

Post by _yb2s »

drewcoo wrote: post #33
_yb2s wrote: post #20

I've read a bunch of his books and found both his engineering and philosophical ideas deeply inspiring and useful in my work as an engineer and scientist and in my hobby as a sailor- his deep understanding of geometry and tension, etc. has allowed me to build novel sail rigs and systems. Fuller was awarded a huge number of patents on his inventions- and although mostly impractical, they are quite certainly new invent…

If the random Deepak Chopra generator included some trigonometry, we'd have Bucky Fuller. http://www.wisdomofchopra.com Without context, that can be inspiring. But that doesn't make it meaningful.

Indeed something could be inspiring without being meaningful, but that isn't what I am talking about- I am talking about ideas that are specifically useful insights- inspiring because they pointed me to a useful solution to a real problem, or to navigate a technical problem in a different way that led to a solution.

For me his most functionally useful and inspiring ideas have been in the realm of philosophy of engineering- he has a process for thinking about problems that avoids a lot of pitfalls that cause people to reject new or weird ideas.

His ideas are concrete, specific, and very well thought out- he is a brilliant guy. If you've read his books and they seem like Chopra mixed with math jargon, and you can't see how they are useful for real world engineering problems, you are simply not understanding him.

Re: New doctoral thesis proposes Buckminster Fuller was a 'charlatan'

#36

Post by skhunted »

drewcoo wrote: post #32
skhunted wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historians of science would be interested in the topic as would those studying the sociology of scientific communities. In this day of rampant pseudoscience and distrust of scientists it is of interest to know if and how fellow scientists were snookered. Intelligence agencies like to study and understand the propagation of false information.

> Historians of science would be interested in the topic as would those studying the sociology of scientific communities. Except that Fuller wasn't a scientist and did not contribute in any way to science. > In this day of rampant pseudoscience and distrust of scientists Time would be better spent figuring out how evolutionary psychology manages to seem real today. We already have works on the phrenology of yesteryea…

You have a capacity for missing the point.

Re: New doctoral thesis proposes Buckminster Fuller was a 'charlatan'

#37

Post by _yb2s »

gumby wrote: post #31

As a teen I was quite taken by Fuller. Even back then I was smart enough to wonder why his ideas weren't incorporated in all the things around me (except the geodesic dome climbing structure in the schoolyard), and eventually put 2+2 together and figure that maybe his ideas weren't particularly great in practice. I think i was the "dymaxion car" that got me thinking. It did help me develop some immunity to the conspi…

His ideas are incorporated into everything around you, you just aren't seeing or understanding it.

The dymaxion car redefined both aerodynamics and space efficiency in vehicles. It inspired the VW bus, and lives on today in cabover vans and buses around the world, which efficiently transport a lot of people by allowing nearly the entire footprint of the vehicle to be used for passengers.

It was in no way a practical vehicle itself, but it showcased a huge number of new ideas that were later incorporated into vehicles- it was a 'concept car' with a huge impact.

Re: New doctoral thesis proposes Buckminster Fuller was a 'charlatan'

#38

Post by _yb2s »

FrankWilhoit wrote: post #2

The point is not to re-evaluate Fuller, but to become aware of our vulnerability to taking such persons at their own estimation of themselves. There have been a vast number of examples, down history, many with extremely harmful consequences. We should have learned by now to spot this category of error and train ourselves out of it. It is at least as important, as a universal baseline skill, as elementary mathematics.

I'm more worried about the opposite- categorizing these type of manic visionaries as "charlatans" ignores the value of being able to advocate and try new ideas, and think radically outside of the box. I think this dissertation operates from the attitude that "nothing is possible, nothing is worth trying" and then extrapolates that taking risks and being innovative is charlatanism. It is what Nietzsche calls the philosophy of the "last man" - someone that takes no risks, is tired of life, and has goals of only comfort and security.
Post reply on HN