Earlier quoted context omitted.
Arguably it would take time for the violent crime to subside. A culture of violence does not vanish over night, but rather over generations. My prediction is Mexico's violent crime spilling over to the US resulting in a drug war surge (both already happening to some degree.) In the background, regulators slowly loosen up laws as to not lose face (would explain the toleration of medical marijuana.) I can only imagine…
Homicide and other violent crime rates tracked pretty tightly to the creation (and eventual repeal) of alcohol prohibition laws in the US. Homicide rates dropped dramatically immediately after prohibitions repeal. We likely wouldn't need to wait "generations" to see a benefit. One reference for prohibition homicide data: http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/alcohol-pro...
How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions
171–180 of 248 posts
Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions
#172The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…
I read this and wonder how bad it needs to get before politicians take legalisation seriously. 50,000 people dead? - check. Billions in profit? - check. Narco-states on the US border? - check. Criminals walk out of prison? - check. Gigantic crack & methaphetamine problem within the US? - check.
Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions
#173The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…
I read this and wonder how bad it needs to get before politicians take legalisation seriously. 50,000 people dead? - check. Billions in profit? - check. Narco-states on the US border? - check. Criminals walk out of prison? - check. Gigantic crack & methaphetamine problem within the US? - check.
So long as the policy is perpetuated by people who are elected by those who still sheltered from the worst of it, I wouldn't expect any change.
Particularly not now that there's a robust military-incarceration-industrial lobby with a strong incentive to maintain the status quo and no limitation on their ability to make 'campaign contributions'.
Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions
#174The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…
I read this and wonder how bad it needs to get before politicians take legalisation seriously. 50,000 people dead? - check. Billions in profit? - check. Narco-states on the US border? - check. Criminals walk out of prison? - check. Gigantic crack & methaphetamine problem within the US? - check.
Having a gigantic drug war going on right across the US border in Mexico is a crazy thing to begin with. Add to that it's about owning territory to import drugs into the US, to feed a large demand.
Plus the cartels make bales of money on marijuana sales, when it could easily be a huge cash crop for so many US counties. Job creation blah blah blah.
I'd support legalization and taxation of marijuana, it seems like the honest thing to do since it's everywhere anyway and doesn't seem to destroy people's lives like crack and meth.
Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would the largest consumer (US) purchase drugs from the drug cartels if it were legal in the US and could be sold at every 7-11? The drug cartels would lose a lot of the revenue which makes them powerful.
Why you are worrying about revenues of cartels? If you think that selling drugs is legal, then their business is equally legal to business of Apple or Microsoft. Why you are not worrying about revenues of Microsoft or Apple?
Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions
#176Keep in mind the one thing that is paramount with applying the harm principle: /without imposing costs on others/.
So what we should do is make smoking anything where others can inhale it without consent illegal and legalize everything else-whether snorted, injected, swallowed or absorbed of all drugs. The only places you should be allowed to smoke are designated private smoking facilities with air filtration systems or your own home if you install an air filtration system yourself. I cannot refuse or consent to inhaling smoke (and where I live, it's a constant assault on your respiratory system. If the people using it ate, snorted, or injected it, there would be no problem). Otherwise, just legalize and regulate; you should have to go through a process to determine whether you're fit to use certain types of drugs, sign consent forms, and agree that any costs incurred due to potential addiction are your own and will not be borne by the state (including things like alcohol - nothing would be exempt from the basic health indemnification. Addiction programs would be covered, though.) If you agree, you're sold drugs by state-chartered companies that are tightly regulated, including pricing, to eliminate the black market. If you use them for medical purposes, you'd be able to bypass the process with a prescription (subject to the same regulations about methods of use.)
We should also deign to move hardcore addicts into treatment programs, or, in the case of those who are incorrigible, to long-term "use and protection" facilities. Finally, we should have designated locations with medical personnel, security, and addiction counselors where addicts could use drugs without fear of personal harm and without being public nuisances.
With a harm reduction-based system, the entire apparatus surrounding the drug war crumbles. The income of smugglers and dealers disappears. The need for most costly state organizations to fight it goes away. The violence largely disappears (what's the nominal level of violence surrounding nicotine and alcohol?) Regarding DEA funding. Under the system I outlined, this agency would actually get useful: to crack down on and prosecute black market (for those who want to go around the screening process) drug smugglers, importers/exporters, and sellers to the full extent of the law.
People are going to do drugs no matter what we do, so we should be talking about methods of use and harm reduction, not just "substances." Don't "legalize pot" or the like; protect sovereignty of the self, and reduce harm to individuals and society.
Caveats:
Is a full drug legalization policy feasible everywhere? In every country? I would have to give that an unqualified no. In order for a system like this to be feasible, many things are needed.
- A working system of justice that is generally trusted by the populace.
- A largely transparent system of governance.
- A government, justice system, and law enforcement personnel that are perceived to be (and actually are) to be largely free of corruption.
- A strong state that can actually enforce edicts against black market suppliers.
- A strong state, stable state that would be difficult to overthrow.
- A culture that truly accepts harm reduction, and does not simply regard using it as "defeat" or "moral midgetry" Most developed countries fit, or could fit this bill. There are places, however, that are so plagued by corruption, are already so violent, are so unstable, or are already basically run by drug organizations that legalizing drugs would be like legalizing murder (Mexico fits this definition, unfortunately. It appears to already be near to a full-fledged narco-state.) It's already the rule, and would basically have no effect except to make these drug organizations laugh. In those places, some of which are bordering on failed states (or successful narco-states) cannot be fixed in this way. Those places need to re-establish order, trust, and strong states. They should not be thought of as drug wars, however. They should be thought of more like "reclamation missions." Criminal organizations have gotten so powerful, that they are often their own nations inside of existing states, and those states need to "reclaim" their territory and power from said organizations. Those situations are far beyond the drugs. They're fundamentally about power.
Moving beyond today's current drug-related battles, we need to ask another question: why, in the face of so much effort to combat it, do so many people still want to use recreational drugs? 1) To escape crushing poverty, despair, depression. For these, only addressing the root causes are going to get us anywhere. Economic opportunities, physical security, better social safety nets, better mental health services, etc. 2) Pure enjoyment. For this, developing largely non-addictive, side-effect-free, cheap, legal alternatives to current recreational drugs. This could be anything from better drugs to computer-neural interfaces that allow more pleasurable/realistic experiences.
Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would the largest consumer (US) purchase drugs from the drug cartels if it were legal in the US and could be sold at every 7-11? The drug cartels would lose a lot of the revenue which makes them powerful.
Why you are worrying about revenues of cartels? If you think that selling drugs is legal, then their business is equally legal to business of Apple or Microsoft. Why you are not worrying about revenues of Microsoft or Apple?
No one here is claiming that selling drugs is legal. Some of us think that selling drugs should become legal, in the hopes that businesses that are like Microsoft and Apple, i.e., don't assassinate judges, etc, will outcompete the cartels and decrease the cartel's revenues, hence decreasing their ability and participation in such undesirable activities.
Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because there's always the risk that someone will try it out of curiosity. And since it's a highly addictive drug you might end up causing more problems than you intend to solve.
Quick thought experiment... Same addict in two societies. Society 1) Drugs are regulated in pretty much the same ways they are in the US, and because of this prices are high. The addict may have a family or maybe not, but has bills to pay. He spends all his money on drugs leading to neglect of his bills. He gets arrested and is now unable to hold down a job. This leads into other problems after he gets out of legal t…
Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because there's always the risk that someone will try it out of curiosity. And since it's a highly addictive drug you might end up causing more problems than you intend to solve.
Like tens of thousands dying in the global drug wars annually, mixed with the cultural destruction we see in America's inner cities and with two million people in prison from drugs? I don't see how you're going to stand any chance of causing more problems than that. Cocaine has gotten cheap enough that anybody can try it if they want to. In the 40 year war on drugs, they've had a nearly unlimited budget and all the t…
Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions
#180The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…
At this point, I doubt it will help. Why? The cartels thrive in countries where you can essentially buy off any official. When you legalize drugs, they aren't going to suddenly stop selling it. They will now have a legal business which will continue to fund their criminal empires. We most likely will see an increase in other crimes, like extortion and kidnapping. Drugs are still illegal in the US and we don't really…
No. Once a drug is legalized, supply can go up and price plummets. What was once a "criminal empire" now has the cash flow of a 7-11. And because price plummets, addicts no longer need to crawl in your bedroom window to steal money/goods to buy drugs. Crime drops. Drug-related extortion and kidnapping would virtually disappear.