Live data from Hacker News

More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

bluewin.ch

231–240 of 309 posts

Re: More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

#231
post #52

It's a classic case of efficiency vs latency. Swiss railways optimise for punctuality, sacrificing line capacity (compensated for with double-decker cars). Meanwhile every other European rail transport authority seems to be bent on squeezing out the most of the lines it has. I grew up in a city that had two parallel rail lines in the east-west axis - one for long-distance connections, cargo and everything else, the o…

What you said goes against what the other commenter have said, that is Swiss trains cannot inject late trains into the system because the tracks are used at capacity, I.e. there is no buffer for trains to “queue”. Every train is always at the expected place, at the expected time. Hence the system is always at maximum throughput and on-time.

Re: More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

#232

This is so foreign to my American perspective - our public transport is more like, "maybe it'll be on time, probably not, you'll have no way of knowing, also screw you"

> so foreign to my American perspective - our public transport is more like, "maybe it'll be on time, probably not, you'll have no way of knowing, also screw you" New York’s Metro-North and LIRR have 95%+ on-time rates [1]. (EDIT: On time is defined as less than 6 minutes late [2].) [1] https://www.metro-magazine.com/10217862/metro-north-lirr-exp... [2] https://www.osc.ny.gov/files/reports/pdf/report-9-2025.pdf

BART's on-time definition is "within 5 minutes of scheduled arrival at final station". I recall in NYC's Metro that trains would frequently "go express" and start skipping stops at arbitrary moments. Do these systems do this as well and have that definition? I think I now understand why they do this stuff: they're trying to juice metrics because skipping stations speeds up the train a lot.

Re: More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

#233

This is so foreign to my American perspective - our public transport is more like, "maybe it'll be on time, probably not, you'll have no way of knowing, also screw you"

Not sure why you'd want to lump all of America in to one category of failure when it's demonstrably untrue. Quick example - BART in the Bay Area has a 92-93% on-time rate.

There must be some definitional trick here (like canceled trains not counting, or something) because my memory of BART (as a daily multi-commuter: home to work, work to sports, sports to home) was frequent moments of "10 CAR SAN FRANCISCO INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT / MILLBRAE TRAIN IN FOR-TEE MINUTES" and shit like that. Enough of that in the year 2019 led to me switching to e-bike/car and frequently this is a much faster trip than the train.

Re: More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

#234

Hard but entirely relatable. Deutsche bahn is horrible, privatizing it in the 90s was one of many failures of that movement and was leading to crumbling infrastructure, an insurmountable hardware and technical debt and now to the most complex train system probably in the world. Hopefully some people learn from it - privatizing critical infrastructure like this is doomed to fail. You get the bad from a public company…

If you privatize with the right rule structure and policing from the government, with payment as a function of being on time or not. You can have a good system.

Re: More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bummer. I'm happy with European rail. For instance, it is 36 hours by FlixBus from Amsterdam to Porto, but if you use high-speed rail (Eurostar, TGV, Iryo) it is only 23 hours, faster than going by car.

Traveling 2,000km in the US would take me like 5 hours including an hour in the airport each way. Even if you made it two hours on departure that's six hours of total travel time. Compared to a 23 hour train trip. Distances like that, trains just don't make sense IMO.

Europe has airports as well, of course. We're discussing other transport here though.

Re: More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best part of British food is that we're incredibly good at adopting all of the worlds cuisines' as our own. I remember being at the Belgian GP and literally you could have chips with various shaped sausage and one pizza place hiding at the back. At the British GP you could eat some variant (admittedly, probably not the best variant) of pretty much every cuisine you could imagine. Even in our supermarkets if you w…

After an excursion to London many years ago (from USA), I reported to my coworkers that the food was great. I received the strangest looks from the British-ex pats. I still think the food was quite good, though thinking back I don’t think I sampled the “native” British cuisine.

To be fair, London is one of the most cosmopolitan and international cities in the world. The rest of the UK isn't quite so much like that.

Re: More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

#237
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Videos I've watched of people's experiences. Things like having a driver be at their max hours, maybe due to unforceen traffic and delays, and Greyhound having no replacement driver ready, causing them to be late. Not hit pieces, just travel vlogs. Everyone has to get off the bus, sit in a sometimes crappy terminal at 2 am, often with no amenities while it's sorted out. I'm a bus advocate, you can see it from another…

Are watching videos of people's negative experiences really an unbiased way to understand the actual statistics on how often busses are on-time? People probably post videos when things go wrong, do you think a similar rate of videos get uploaded when nothing notable happens? I see videos of fights breaking out on airplanes, hear about horror stories of being stuck on a plane and not allowed getting off. I take it tha…

I think you're misunderstanding. GP isn't saying "drawing randomly from all videos of unsafe situations, a large fraction of them occur on long-distance buses". They're saying "drawing randomly from all long-distance bus videos online, a large fraction of them have unsafe situations".

There are a number of travel vloggers who do a trip exactly once and report on what happened. The same vlogger will make videos about taking ships, trains, airplanes, and long- and short-distance buses, in a variety of countries, on a variety of budgets. Among these vloggers, it is generally agreed that long-distance buses in the USA are the worst form of transit in the developed world. Their videos on other forms of travel rarely (if ever) show the kinds of unsafe experiences they have on long-distance buses in the US.

I'm also a numbers person and I've looked around to try and find stats for how dismal the safety and on-time performance of US long distance buses are for you, but none are published. I can just report that the cancellation rate is well over 10%, the on-time performance is maybe around 50%, and personally speaking the experience is frequently unsafe and miserable.

I don't mean to make this personal, but if you're in the US, consider driving to the local greyhound station/pick up and just waiting there for particular bus. It's really one of the worst experiences you can have in a city.

Some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uPDQvqoN4w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8QGTaGwxxc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTpt4tMnDT0

Re: More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice it does feel like basically every single Amtrak is delayed after just a few stops, so I would be shocked if the situation is worse in Germany. However to put some numbers on it, here are Amtrak's own stats: https://www.bts.gov/content/amtrak-time-performance-trends-a... . In the flagship northeast corridor (that's Boston - NYC - Philadelphia - DC) the "on-time" percentage is around 80%, where on-time is w…

i mean the end result for customers is the same no matter whose fault it is, which just makes it not a dependable mode of transport for riders.

Agreed, I just think it's worth mentioning because a lot of the discussion in this thread is about how much Deutsche Bahn sucks, and while Amtrak also sucks, it doesn't suck quite as much as experience would lead you to believe. Much of the blame is on America as a whole, not specifically Amtrak.

Or to put it another way, it sounds like DB has a lot of problems that it could fix, but Amtrak has a lot of problems that are out of its control.

Re: More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

#239

I visit Germany more or less regularly. The deterioration in the overall experience with DB is very noticeable. Last time I was unfortunate enough to take an ICE, they started an informal poll with the passengers to decide whether to cancel a stop in Frankfurt. I was astonished. They eventually decided not to cancel it, seemingly after a lot of time deliberating or waiting for something, but most of us lost our conne…

Well their finances were broken by a series of changes:

1. Lockdowns wrecking everything. Ticket revenue plummeted etc.

2. Soon after, the government there decided to make train travel nearly free. 9 EUR a month to travel as much as you want anywhere in Germany. Justification: climate change. This doubled short-distance usage of the network immediately. Huge increase in usage + hardly any new ticket revenue = network damage. There were subsidies but you can't place that kind of load on a system without everything being stripped to the bone to try and handle it.

3. When that scheme expired they decided to replace it with a new similar ticket at 49 EUR per month, but the rail companies complained they couldn't afford this and the financial risk was huge. https://www.railjournal.com/policy/germany-introduces-e49-ti...

DB losses have exploded and debt grows as a consequence:

DB had a net loss for 2023 of some EUR 2.4 billion (compared with a net loss of EUR 227 million in the previous year). One of the negative factors here was the significant increase in interest paid, which was driven in part by higher borrowing for capital expenditures. The DB Group's results were also affected by the additional burdens of inflation-related cost increases, a sharp rise in personnel expenses and multiple strikes.

https://www.dbschenker.com/tw-en/insights/news-and-stories/p...

So basically you have a socialist government that is giving sops to its base by trying to pump rail usage for climate reasons, but without making people pay for that increased usage, at a time of high inflation. The system creaks and groans under the weight.

Re: More and more German trains are not allowed to enter Switzerland

#240
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put this a bit into perspective: long-distance trains in Germany typically travel for at least half a day. "Long-distance" trains in Switzerland can be compared to regional lines in Germany (the country simply isn't that large, and the majority of rail travel in Switzerland happens between Zurich/Olten/Berne/Basel, which are all within 100 km of each other). The likelihood of anything going wrong during a 1:30h tr…

Slightly longer stops solves the problem. :-/

Increasing timetable ride time between stations too (beyond actual needed time). The Dutch railways do that a lot.
Post reply on HN