Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 102 posts

Re: Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

#91

Post by dcz_self »

bbb651 wrote: post #89
dcz_self wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear, hear. I hit all those Wayland issues while working on Squeekboard. https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/Phosh/squeekboard > Similarly, how do you create an on-screen keyboard that can inject keypresses for characters not available in the current layout? I switched the keyboard layout on the fly, on key press, if needed. That works... mostly. Chromium and Chromium-based apps know better what layout I am using, so they…

Well good news, literally just did a week ago: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/57...

Oh wow, the beginning of a new era.

Re: Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

#92

Post by cies »

Longhanks wrote: post #51
WD-42 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My tearing-free window movement begs to differ

I haven't had screen tearing on KDE 5, now 6, in the last at least 5 years with Intel and/or NVIDIA graphics. This is not a problem of X11 itself.

Indeed. Security (all apps get all keypresses and hard to implement correct behaving lock screens) and multi-monitor with factional scaling per monitor; those were the things that apparently were to super-duper hard to fix in X11.

Maybe a years or two until Wayland gets to full feature parity (except for features Wayland specifically does not have like network support and drawing window borders etc.)

In those same two year I expect all app I use to be running native on Wayland as well. (IntelliJ being the main app I'm waiting for and they are making progress)

Re: Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

#93

Post by [deleted] »

avidseeker wrote: post #72

Reminds me of Tom Scott's "Art of Bodge up" video where he attempts to make an emoji keyboard on Windows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIFE7h3m40U It's funny at the end he says "and don't ever suggest me I use Linux, just don't." I felt he expected it to be really hard project on Linux, while iterally his project is a single keyboard layout file.

[deleted]

Re: Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

#94

Post by account42 »

dcz_self wrote: post #83
codedokode wrote: post #62

Please let me rant a bit about X11 input APIs. One of the major flaws in X11 is its poorly designed keyboard input system. When a key is pressed, the keypress event sends a "keycode" - an 8-bit number that references the current layout. This means you're limited to injecting characters that are present in the current layout. The implications of this design are frustrating. For instance, if you're connecting to a remo…

Hear, hear. I hit all those Wayland issues while working on Squeekboard. https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/Phosh/squeekboard > Similarly, how do you create an on-screen keyboard that can inject keypresses for characters not available in the current layout? I switched the keyboard layout on the fly, on key press, if needed. That works... mostly. Chromium and Chromium-based apps know better what layout I am using, so they…

> I'm getting that impression as well after discussing the topic of internationalization on Mastodon: using languages other than English is undervalued by open source devs. I mean, how often do you find variables named in Spanish or Russian in open source software? It's a very anglocentric bubble.

And that's a good thing.

Re: Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

#95

Post by account42 »

cies wrote: post #92
Longhanks wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't had screen tearing on KDE 5, now 6, in the last at least 5 years with Intel and/or NVIDIA graphics. This is not a problem of X11 itself.

Indeed. Security (all apps get all keypresses and hard to implement correct behaving lock screens) and multi-monitor with factional scaling per monitor; those were the things that apparently were to super-duper hard to fix in X11. Maybe a years or two until Wayland gets to full feature parity (except for features Wayland specifically does not have like network support and drawing window borders etc.) In those same tw…

> Security (all apps get all keypresses and hard to implement correct behaving lock screens)

That's a feature, not a security issue.

Re: Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

#96

Post by dcz_self »

account42 wrote: post #94
dcz_self wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear, hear. I hit all those Wayland issues while working on Squeekboard. https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/Phosh/squeekboard > Similarly, how do you create an on-screen keyboard that can inject keypresses for characters not available in the current layout? I switched the keyboard layout on the fly, on key press, if needed. That works... mostly. Chromium and Chromium-based apps know better what layout I am using, so they…

> I'm getting that impression as well after discussing the topic of internationalization on Mastodon: using languages other than English is undervalued by open source devs. I mean, how often do you find variables named in Spanish or Russian in open source software? It's a very anglocentric bubble. And that's a good thing.

Why is that a good thing? I get the idea that a common language is beneficial, but the flip side is the knowledge and effort of the people who know another language. That's lost due to never being opened (I guess that's more of an indictment of the open source community being not interlinguistic).

Re: Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

#97

Post by aidenn0 »

kovac wrote: post #90
aidenn0 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean you're free to fork and continue developing X11; right now there is nobody with both the capability and the desire to do so. I'd wager that once I get hardware made in 2024, Wayland may work well for me (though in its defense it does work fine on my one machine with an Intel integraded GPU), but for now none of my (very old) discrete GPUs work reliably with Wayland, with 2 GPUs and 3 drivers (nvidia vs nouveau…

> I mean you're free to fork and continue developing X11; right now there is nobody with both the capability and the desire to do so. OpenBSD Xenocara

Last I heard, Xenocara was downstream of X11 rather than being a hard fork?

Re: Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

#98

Post by Zirias »

dcz_self wrote: post #96
account42 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm getting that impression as well after discussing the topic of internationalization on Mastodon: using languages other than English is undervalued by open source devs. I mean, how often do you find variables named in Spanish or Russian in open source software? It's a very anglocentric bubble. And that's a good thing.

Why is that a good thing? I get the idea that a common language is beneficial, but the flip side is the knowledge and effort of the people who know another language. That's lost due to never being opened (I guess that's more of an indictment of the open source community being not interlinguistic).

So, let's look at this group of people knowledgeable in programming et al, but not english. Sure, this group exists. It's relatively tiny though. English is the language in any (modern, IOW except where it didn't replace latin yet) science, including CS. The vast majority of other on-topic literature is english. It's hard to learn a decent amount of stuff concerning programming without knowing english.

You can't randomly mix languages in source code, and any other choice of common language than english would exclude a LOT more people from the project.

All of this isn't related to i18n/l10n of your application at all. People not knowing english is a much more relevant factor when talking about user interfaces. I actually plan to localize my Xmoji tool eventually, it's just postponed until more important stuff is done (I mean, I assume most people would get together enough english to be able to use an emoji keyboard after all, but of course, especially seaching would benefit from l10n).

Re: Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

#99

Post by dcz_self »

Zirias wrote: post #98
dcz_self wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that a good thing? I get the idea that a common language is beneficial, but the flip side is the knowledge and effort of the people who know another language. That's lost due to never being opened (I guess that's more of an indictment of the open source community being not interlinguistic).

So, let's look at this group of people knowledgeable in programming et al, but not english. Sure, this group exists. It's relatively tiny though. English is the language in any (modern, IOW except where it didn't replace latin yet) science, including CS. The vast majority of other on-topic literature is english. It's hard to learn a decent amount of stuff concerning programming without knowing english. You can't rand…

I guess my initial reaction was wrong: not having code in non-English languages doesn't accurately represent developer sentiments. There's a lot of translation efforts in open source, but again, this is not a good proxy for the sentiment because we don't know how many translators (who care about non-English) set project direction and design protocols.

Still, an anglocentric bubble diminishes internationalization, and I disagree that it's a good thing.

Re: Emotional about X11: I'm creating a pure X11 “emoji keyboard”

#100

Post by katzinsky »

account42 wrote: post #94
dcz_self wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hear, hear. I hit all those Wayland issues while working on Squeekboard. https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/Phosh/squeekboard > Similarly, how do you create an on-screen keyboard that can inject keypresses for characters not available in the current layout? I switched the keyboard layout on the fly, on key press, if needed. That works... mostly. Chromium and Chromium-based apps know better what layout I am using, so they…

> I'm getting that impression as well after discussing the topic of internationalization on Mastodon: using languages other than English is undervalued by open source devs. I mean, how often do you find variables named in Spanish or Russian in open source software? It's a very anglocentric bubble. And that's a good thing.

The Elinks code is in some Eastern European language.
Post reply on HN