How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions • Hacker News Board

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#41

Post by elorant » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 7:17 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #36

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

At this point, I doubt it will help. Why? The cartels thrive in countries where you can essentially buy off any official. When you legalize drugs, they aren't going to suddenly stop selling it. They will now have a legal business which will continue to fund their criminal empires. We most likely will see an increase in other crimes, like extortion and kidnapping. Drugs are still illegal in the US and we don't really…

Legalizing drugs means that the street price will drop by 90% and that will eventually make drug trafficking obsolete.

This of course doesn't solve the real problem which is consumption.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#42

Post by eieio » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 7:17 PM UTC

startupfounder wrote: post #4

Joaquín Archivaldo Guzmán Loera is a true hacker, he continually breaks into the most secure country in the world by exploiting it's weaknesses. "The cartel makes sandbag bridges to ford the Colorado River and sends buggies loaded with weed bouncing over the Imperial Sand Dunes into California." Because of this, even when he is caught and send to a maximum security prison he is able to organize an escape by hacking t…

Also notable are the stories of what he has done since his escape:

"In 2005 on a Saturday evening, Guzmán reportedly strolled into a restaurant in Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, with several of his bodyguards. After he took his seat, his henchmen locked the doors of the restaurant, collected the cell phones of approximately 30 diners and instructed them to not be alarmed.[26] The gangsters then ate their meal and left – paying for everyone else in the restaurant.[27]"

(from the same wikipedia article, of course)

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#43

Post by revelation » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 7:19 PM UTC

paulhauggis wrote: post #36

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

At this point, I doubt it will help. Why? The cartels thrive in countries where you can essentially buy off any official. When you legalize drugs, they aren't going to suddenly stop selling it. They will now have a legal business which will continue to fund their criminal empires. We most likely will see an increase in other crimes, like extortion and kidnapping. Drugs are still illegal in the US and we don't really…

Corruption is a tradeoff. Is the risk to lose your safe job and possibly land in jail worth the money? So you need money to corrupt officials on a large scale, a lot of money.

Obviously that kind of money is no problem if your profit margin is 80%. Legalizing drugs (hence introducing highly industrialized competition) and helping those who are truly addicted tends to quickly kill that margin.

I'm not saying legalization is the golden bullet; obviously you will have to do a lot more to reverse the damage done by millions in prison, impoverished, killed, or corrupted in the government apparatus. But its the starting point to stopping the cancer from expanding.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#44

Post by larrys » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 7:22 PM UTC

fkn wrote: post #15

I'd be interested in knowing how they were able to buy Boeing 747s. Those are huge transactions, you can't simply buy planes with cash. I would assume that it would be through shell companies, but wouldn't (or shouldn't) Boeing be careful about who their customers are?

"but wouldn't (or shouldn't) Boeing be careful about who their customers are?"

Forgetting for a second whether we are talking about Boeing or the used market that is what money laundering is all about. Taking ill gotten gains and putting into a legitimate business. It wouldn't be a stretch to form a legitimate air charter company and even get customers as a cover for buying an airplane. If you've got the level of money they have there are many things you can do. Obviously you are hiding the transactions even if some of the parties might know there is something wrong going on.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#45

Post by vibrunazo » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 7:29 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

They make most of their money from cocaine and methamphetamine (which can be legally acquired, but that didn't stop traffic). 90% of all cocaine in the US come from mexico. [1] Do you mean cocaine should be legalized? Alcohol is a bad analogy to legalizing cocaine, you should probably be comparing to the Opium Wars instead, which didn't really end well. [2]

[1] http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL34215.pdf

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#46

Post by jlarocco » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 7:29 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

I'm in favor of drug legalization, but it's not going to happen any time soon, and I don't think it would reduce crime even if it did

It's hard enough to get pot legalized in most states - the "harder" drugs don't stand a chance.

And even if they were legalized, it's not even possible for a big illegal drug operation to "go legit". All of the drug cartels will still have long histories of violence, piles of cash, boatloads of weapons, and a ton of smuggling expertise. They'll probably just "pivot" to smuggling the next most profitable thing. Or smuggle untaxed and unregulated drugs.

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#47

Post by kia » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 7:33 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #31

The only way to stop these large criminal enterprises is to legalize the stuff. Just like alcohol prohibition created some of the most notorious American criminals, South American drug prohibitions produce powerful criminals down there. There isn't any large crime related to South American cocoa or coffee imports. Legalize it and then spend money and make laws regulating consumption, it would greatly reduce the miser…

The big difference of drugs from alcohol and tobacco is their addictiveness. While you can't get addicted to alcohol or tobacco after one use, certain drugs cause severe addiction after first dose. Of course you can legalize only mild drugs. But it won't solve the problem because as we see this business is mostly about very addictive ones.

EDIT: typo

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#48

Post by vlisivka » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 7:33 PM UTC

elorant wrote: post #41

paulhauggis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, I doubt it will help. Why? The cartels thrive in countries where you can essentially buy off any official. When you legalize drugs, they aren't going to suddenly stop selling it. They will now have a legal business which will continue to fund their criminal empires. We most likely will see an increase in other crimes, like extortion and kidnapping. Drugs are still illegal in the US and we don't really…

Legalizing drugs means that the street price will drop by 90% and that will eventually make drug trafficking obsolete. This of course doesn't solve the real problem which is consumption.

Meth is very cheap already. Any changes?

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#49

Post by vlisivka » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 7:35 PM UTC

dsrguru wrote: post #39

paulhauggis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, I doubt it will help. Why? The cartels thrive in countries where you can essentially buy off any official. When you legalize drugs, they aren't going to suddenly stop selling it. They will now have a legal business which will continue to fund their criminal empires. We most likely will see an increase in other crimes, like extortion and kidnapping. Drugs are still illegal in the US and we don't really…

People who have lived in big cities in the U.S. would strongly disagree with you. There are entire areas that are dangerous to walk in thanks to drug gangs. Legalize the stuff and dealers can't continue forcing out the competition with guns, since that competition will be the local supermarket.

Alcohol is already legal, so why gangs are not gone?

Re: How a Mexican Drug Cartel Makes Its Billions

#50

Post by fkn » Fri, Jun 15, 2012, 7:35 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #35

gwern wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Money doesn't stink', as the Roman Emperor said. Who's to say they aren't selling? But in any case, money and planes are pretty fungible. Perhaps they use straw buyers, or perhaps they simply buy used. Plenty of 747s out there now.

I was going to say the same thing, you see a lot of them parked on the tarmac in Mojave with out of business livery or sometimes just painted white. There have been stories of folks laundering money in the middle east where there are apparently a lot of 'cash' jobs that take US currency, still the cartoon picture of the pallets of cash was pretty hilarious. I wonder if you could trade a pallet of cash for a check fro…

If that day were to come, as a hacker, how do you turn down a chance to work with a well-funded customer that want you to build a evacuated tunnel train, but on the other hand, this is essentially blood money. A passion vs moral dilemma...