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Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

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Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#531

Post by aspensmonster »

counterpointus wrote: post #522
aspensmonster wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long time no see, HN! As a techie-turned-communist I'm vested in this story, so I decided to follow along: https://x.com/aspensmonster/status/1818859550516129814 I was able to follow their guide to scrape the resultadosconvzla.com website, and ended up with ~22,000 JPGs of receipts. A random sampling of them shows that, for the most part, they contain no actual inked signatures and/or fingerprints that would be prese…

As is explained in detail here: https://x.com/i/broadcasts/1YpKklRpzAyGj The signatures on the Actas are digital, not ink. The testigos sign on the voting machine's screen. The machine will print out the receipt once the witnesses agree to the electronic count against their tallies of the individual paper votes. After printing, the machine goes online to transmit the electronic results, which can always be audited by…

>The signatures on the Actas are digital, not ink.

Yes, each acta has a digital signature, gathered ahead of time. It is there to compare against the inked signatures signed by the members of the mesa, after confirmation that the sampled ballots converge toward the computer's results. The ballots are the source of truth here, not what the computer receipt says. And the link between the ballots and the receipt are the inked signatures (or fingerprints) of the members of the mesa.

>What's more likely, that the opposition forged tens of thousands of receipts in less than a day, or a dictator reported fake results to remain in power?

The opposition need not have been the one to hack the machines. A third party could have done that. And again, the opposition haven't released "forged" receipts, merely receipts that have not actually been certified. How they have obtained those receipts is an open question at this point.

>Receipts, mind you, copies of which are given to each witness from the top-three political parties, at any point now could have been called into question but not a single counter example has been shown.

90% of their receipts lack any inked certification from the presidents, secretaries, members, witnesses, or operators of the mesas on the ground. That should be garnering an enormous amount of skepticism from a crowd that is normally adamant about not trusting computers during elections.

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#532

Post by counterpointus »

aspensmonster wrote: post #531
counterpointus wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As is explained in detail here: https://x.com/i/broadcasts/1YpKklRpzAyGj The signatures on the Actas are digital, not ink. The testigos sign on the voting machine's screen. The machine will print out the receipt once the witnesses agree to the electronic count against their tallies of the individual paper votes. After printing, the machine goes online to transmit the electronic results, which can always be audited by…

>The signatures on the Actas are digital, not ink. Yes, each acta has a digital signature, gathered ahead of time. It is there to compare against the inked signatures signed by the members of the mesa, after confirmation that the sampled ballots converge toward the computer's results. The ballots are the source of truth here, not what the computer receipt says. And the link between the ballots and the receipt are the…

[flagged]

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#533

Post by glass1122 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #15
glass1122 wrote: post #7

[flagged]

They have data. You have the claim that it's propaganda, but you don't refute the data (or even the argument). That's not an effective rebuttal; it's just an attempted deflection. In fact, it shouldn't persuade anyone, even someone who is born and brought up in Venezuela.

you submitted data about Iraq, before Iraq invasion and on other countries too. now everyone knows how much truth that was. The point is whenever the country got natural resources such as oil and gas and want to use it for themselves that benefits people they face all this democracy, freedom and election rigging issues. everyone in the world can see that, except people of usa, who are brainwashed too much.

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#534

Post by gonational »

acureau wrote: post #529
gonational wrote: post #527

I love trying to imagine what it's like being inside the mind of somebody who can entertain this kind of material (assumptions based on statistics, alone), while simultaneously believing that the 2020 US presidential election was sound and secure. I also love imagining what it must be like to read a comment like this and thinks it's political in nature. Those were simpler times...

It's disingenuous to say discussion about election fraud isn't political in nature, what else could it be? I dismissed the 2020 US election fraud claims without looking into them, but I've seen it brought up a few times in this thread and people on HN usually hold reasonable views. After some research I've found nothing remotely convincing. Could you point me towards something like the data presented in this article?…

It's not possible to point out the evidence any longer - those days are over. There was a public plan, by the government and the host of big tech companies that are in bed with that government (In-Q-Tel, for example, is not some big secret), to silence anyone discussing it. You wouldn't here much about this, because of this.

Conspiracies happen, and the nature of those conspiracies is that they futher somebody's goals (Bush family, CIA, big corporations, who knows), and they're secret plans for a reason, because they run counter to the will of the general public, so knowing about them reduces the actors' chances of success. Large efforts are put into place to keep ordinary people from hearing or thinking about them, until they achieve their goals. High level government agents have testified in front of congress about such efforts, many times in the past.

Rewind to 2003; the selfsame government was engaged in wide-spread lying to convince us that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and the media was fully complicit in supporting these lies. I lost my best friend, in that war, in 2006, because the big corporations, in concert with the government, convinced everyone to believe in nonsensical lies.

That war would not have happened if somebody said "wait, they're lying, and here's the proof", and people would have heard about this (on the news), before the war was well underway.

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#535

Post by AI_beffr »

vharuck wrote: post #279
AI_beffr wrote: post #250

[flagged]

>thats why its so strange that this was never mentioned on NPR or anywhere else that i saw. actually it was mentioned once on NPR, extremely briefly. but it was never debunked, they never published an attempt to debunk it. I remember hearing about it more than once on NPR and "On the Media" which is basically NPR. In fact, I just did a search on NPR's website: https://www.npr.org/search/?query=2000%20mules&page=1 >3,…

scrolling through that list of thousands of results, only 6 or so have an actual match for the search term (lol). that explains why i never heard about it. the rest seem to be articles that are about elections, generally related, but do not mention 2000 mules. there are no debunking in those search results, only descriptions calling the movie "widely debunked" (by who?)

i just read the one article on that list that appears to directly address the movie.

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/08/1121648290/a-publisher-abrupt...

it links two articles that claim to debunk the movie, both of which are behind a pay wall. it then goes on to basically say nothing. they contact the groups that the movie accused of helping stuff ballots and those groups say "thats malarky." thats it.

Re: Suspicious data pattern in recent Venezuelan election

#536

Post by AI_beffr »

AI_beffr wrote: post #535
vharuck wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>thats why its so strange that this was never mentioned on NPR or anywhere else that i saw. actually it was mentioned once on NPR, extremely briefly. but it was never debunked, they never published an attempt to debunk it. I remember hearing about it more than once on NPR and "On the Media" which is basically NPR. In fact, I just did a search on NPR's website: https://www.npr.org/search/?query=2000%20mules&page=1 >3,…

scrolling through that list of thousands of results, only 6 or so have an actual match for the search term (lol). that explains why i never heard about it. the rest seem to be articles that are about elections, generally related, but do not mention 2000 mules. there are no debunking in those search results, only descriptions calling the movie "widely debunked" (by who?) i just read the one article on that list that a…

someone downvotes me on a thread that has been made non-visible by the mods many days after the thread was posted and everyone stopped looking at it... how is that possible
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