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Can we trust Microsoft with Open Source? (2021)

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Re: Can we trust Microsoft with Open Source? (2021)

#41
post #20

The thing about open source is that you can just fork it. You don't need to trust them. If the question is actually "Can we trust Microsoft with an Open Source Community?" then it get's more interesting.

>> The thing about open source is that you can just fork it. You don't need to trust them. That's not always true, particularly for things where a company is the primary developer. You can prevent takeovers by using GPL license with no CLA.

No license, GPL or otherwise, can prevent the situation you describe. If the project is licensed under the GPL, and the company decides it's not turning sufficient profit while remaining open source, then they'll simply stop working on the project and the outcome is the same.

Any open source project can only thrive if the community puts the effort in. Choosing GPL does not prevent or even lessen the risk that a company will decide to stop putting forth the effort.

Re: Can we trust Microsoft with Open Source? (2021)

#42

I know a lot of Microsoft people who work in Azure who are big on open source. They know all about KeyCloak, Kubernetes, HashiCorp Vault, Terraform, etc It’s not your Dad’s Microsoft

its not the workers and wealth creators people worry about, rather, its executive leadership and its ability to stand up to investors. Take xbox, phil spencer, gamepass etc. Look at the direction phil was taking things, the direction he wanted to keep taking things, but then compare against the direction it ended up having to take because of investors.

of course the workers are pro opensource etc. Their income is totally divorced from company profit, but through opensource they can at least build a public image that improves employability in a landscape of zero-trust relationships with your employer.

Re: Can we trust Microsoft with Open Source? (2021)

#43

I know a lot of Microsoft people who work in Azure who are big on open source. They know all about KeyCloak, Kubernetes, HashiCorp Vault, Terraform, etc It’s not your Dad’s Microsoft

This situation from the article is interesting because it was one of the last obvious "old school Microsoft" vs. "new school Microsoft" battles. And, ultimately, old-school Microsoft lost this fight.

Re: Can we trust Microsoft with Open Source? (2021)

#44
The problem with discussions like these, and one that goes nearly always unspoken, is the problem of credibility.

When you deal with deceitful people, credibility matters.

The only time credibility does not matter is when you can independently verify what is being said, such as through a framework like Descartes Rules of Method, Logic, or some other epistemological method that is appropriate. Only then does credibility not matter because you can judge for yourself because it has appropriate rational backing.

When you are solely down to an entity that does not use such a framework; credibility matters.. and by extension reputation and past actions take on more importance than hollow words.

Microsoft, especially when it was run by Bill Gates, was never a credible entity. Today, it is run by accountants seeking to ride the knifes edge of what the market will bear, and in the process provide as little value as possible for creations that were made decades ago, ride the gravy train until it goes into the ocean.

While the people at Microsoft certainly have come up with some neat features and projects, when looking at these features/products and the history behind them (i.e. looking at Powershell), these were largely complete accidents, and/or significant internal politicking that could have gone either way because there was little to no profit in it. Their engineers used to be some of the best, but it matters little when the Accountants are in charge and see everything in a risk averse lens.

Once you lose credibility, it is almost impossible to get it back because you have to do so much more than it would have cost originally just to tip the scales back to even. Perception is sticky like that.

To get back to the core question, can we trust Microsoft with Open Source... No you can't, not ever, because they are solely concerned with making profit and stealing whatever they can under the color of law. Open Source doesn't make profit.

The rise of open source is the natural outcome when barriers to entry in a market impose costs so high that you can't do business without those features, (excluding participants from that market, monopolistic ally), and open source is exploitive free labor that's been used to create an alternative to those products when no business can compete due to the simple mathematics of costs.

Even the big players can't compete with free for long without diversifying which is why FOSS is still around today. Volunteers, and some non-standard funding routes which aren't really all that viable at scale. This is also why Microsoft as an entity has been trying to poison pill Linux for awhile, they want to be the only game in town and read everything you write in Office; build a dossier, and sell it to the highest bidder. What could be more valuable then the thoughts of every single person using their product.

Of course they'll claim they aren't doing this (deceitfully), just like Google claims they don't wiretap and listen to surrounding endpoint devices they don't own to show you ads related to what you were talking about in your own home.

Re: Can we trust Microsoft with Open Source? (2021)

#45
Im not an active developer with Microsoft products, but I have questions. Why is this relevant now being this was written in 2021? Is something similar happening again?

Also I am confused, with many corporations getting into poisoning products for financial gains (enshitification) why are people still talking about engaging with companies that have a proven historical track record that they do not have good moatives?

Re: Can we trust Microsoft with Open Source? (2021)

#46
How much more do you need from Microsoft? The answer is no, it's always been no and it will always be no.

They don't see the value of OSS. Stop developing in M$ related technologies if you value your time and your DX.

I agree that C# is Java done well, but there are plenty of languages with feet on more solid foundations than a company with a track record of writing crap code and playing games with their developer community.

Re: Can we trust Microsoft with Open Source? (2021)

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh! So you are Christian Hergert, right? I've been completely deaf to GNOME dev tools for a few years. What are the plans (if is there any) for a reasonably good RAD or ui builder tool (besides cambalache)? Is there any hope for blueprint + workbench turning into something to fill this gap? Was there any progress or plan on the "designable" interface for GTK? For the record, I wrote this comment some time ago: https:…

I am. It's been on my radar for a long time and I have prototypes for one that are bitrotting on gitlab. There are three major design pieces of it. First, It has an executable that runs in your development container (environment/etc) which means you can load libraries/typelibs/girs/etc just like the app would without crashing the IDE (or Glade in the old days). Second, everything is an AST node so doing fun manipulat…

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