This software is goign to have a REAL problem in 2038. If they can't add a single digit field, they are going to have a problem with time_t.
Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers
441–450 of 461 posts
Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers
#442Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Whenever I hear that any IDs could be "recycled", I make a mental note to replace the person making such a proposal from all teams that I am involved in. Couldn't agree more, not even interested in debating it
The misconception here is that Flight numbers are not treated as IDs. A unique key to any flight is the composite of number/origin/departure date. And it's mostly a holdover from legacy systems airlines are entrenched in, so there isn't much else anyone can do here short of completely reinventing the mainframe reservation systems and heavily refactoring all the pieces that depend on it.
> isn't much else anyone can do here short of completely reinventing the mainframe reservation systems and heavily refactoring all the pieces that depend on it.
This is commonly called "software maintenance". I believe that most places have contracts to keep software up to date for changing specifications/operating systems.
Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers
#443Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm pretty sure they want to keep flight numbers short because that's how passengers identify their flight. That wouldn't describe any passenger I've ever known, including myself. We identify our flight by destination and departure time. Airport boards are conveniently sorted by departure time. In case of a tie, I'd fall back to airline, also indicated separately on the board, but a tie over destination and departu…
In the 1980s, I once boarded a Republic flight from Detroit to Houston. Unfortunately, the flight I paid for from Detroit to Houston was a different (and direct) one. In Detroit, there was confusion on the plane as someone else had the same seat assignment but they found me another seat. They finally figured out I was on the wrong plane when we landed in Memphis. I was bounced off a full flight and had to wait 8 hour…
Do you remember how you ended up getting on that flight?
This is what the logistics look like today for the two cases:
I. (I bought the direct flight)
A. Show up at the airport and check the board for a Republic flight from Detroit to Houston. Learn from the board where the checkin counter is.
B. Check in at that counter ("Final destination: Houston") and be issued a single boarding pass showing the boarding gate.
C. Show up at the gate, which displays information about the flight, including a final destination of Houston.
D. Board.
II. (I bought the cheaper flight with a layover)
A. Show up at the airport and check the board for a Republic flight from Detroit to Memphis. Learn where the checkin counter is. (They're both Republic flights, so this will be the same counter.)
B. Check in at that counter ("Final destination: Houston") and be issued two separate boarding passes, one for a flight from Detroit to Memphis and another for a flight from Memphis to Houston. Only the first one will have a gate number on it.
C. Show up at that gate, which, like the flight board, shows that the flight will be going to Memphis.
D. Board.
The flight number on your boarding pass wouldn't matter, because you'd be trying to board a flight to Memphis using a boarding pass that says you're flying to Houston.
What was different then?
Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers
#444Earlier quoted context omitted.
Real talk. I’ve been working in tech for 20 years, am coming off a year-long sabbatical, and for the past couple of months have been struggling with the feeling that the joy is gone and I should consider a radical career change. Reading (what feels to me as) the aggressive pedantry of parent commenter in this thread is giving me a straight up anxiety attack. I’m not sure I have it in me anymore to be in meetings with…
If someone says, "Tom Hanks played Jon Snow in Game of Thrones", and then you reply "that's incorrect, it was Kit Harrington", and then people say "well it's really Tom Hank's cousin that played him", which is still incorrect , is it aggressive pedantry to point out that's still wrong? IP addresses are not globally unique. IP:PORT is not globally unique. Kit Harrington played Jon Snow in the HBO series Game of Throne…
This is the new world we live in, the large group finds 'social correctness' more important than actual correctness.
> but what would you suggest I say to posts attempting to correct me saying I'm wrong when I know they're factually incorrect? Just accept the falsehoods?
If you find a good answer to this please let me know.
I've read books on this topic, and they say to come at the problem from an empathetic view point asking questions and trying to understand the person, however I suggest that you simply dont waste your time, you can't fix peoples broken understanding.
Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers
#445Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm guessing everyone downvotes you for the very strange implication that most software stores IP addresses in ASCII. All networking APIs I'm aware of expect IPv4 addresses as a DWORD.
This is the point, instead of rewriting a full stack, I would rather change the prototype of these APIs. To store 999.999.999.999, then you are totally fine with a 64-bits INT (QWORD), and there is no struggle to backward-compatibility store a 32-bits INT (DWORD) into it. It's more of a matter of doing #ifdef IPV4_EXTENDED #define DWORD QWORD #endif and add an extra IP field inside the IP header packet itself that sa…
You do realize sockaddr_in is an abstraction for data structure here, yes?
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc791#page-11
Where is that new address going in the header?
If it's going in the same spot in the packet header as the current IPv4 address, how do you make sure that the 20-30 routers owned by 3 different companies that are likely to be between your computer and the destination computer exhibit a behavior that is consistent with moving packet closer to the destination?
(If they don't, you've just made a version of IPv6 that is worse-- it's missing the last 30 years of IPv6 implementation.)
Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers
#446Earlier quoted context omitted.
as you are a person who takes the same flight frequently , wont it be easier having the same flight number ? the flight companies should just make the flight numbers fixed for a fixed route, like local buses.
I'm a little confused by your comment - Airlines do re-use flight numbers - BA988 is always the BA flight from LHR to BER at around 19:30 (i.e. there will be a BA988 today, there was one yesterday, and there will be another tomorrow). But to be honest, I'd also say it's not that useful for me personally. It's a lot easier to remember your destination and fight-time - (i.e. I'm on the 19:30 to Berlin) than a flight-nu…
true that
Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers
#447They already have a better solution. Did you see AAA777 to Las Vegas. So they are able to add alpha to numerics, when needed. Return flights sharing the number? Why not.
> Did you see AAA777 to Las Vegas.
That's just a typo in the article, the actual flight number is AA777
https://www.airportia.com/flights/aa777/dallas-fort-worth/la...
Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers
#448If it's a problem for only 3 airlines in the world, give them a new two letter code, if there are any of those codes left. So airline AA will start using also code ZZ for some of their flights. Travelers will be a little puzzled at first but they'll stop noticing soon. I sorted the airlines by two letter codes [1] and the list is pretty busy but hex 20 for Space is still available. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L…
yup this is the cheapest solution. don't know why anyone would suggest a different approach. i read the DL in delta's computers is hard coded so they can't change it, which could be problematic.
Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers
#449Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems to me like an ego issue honestly since the article points out that a large part of the bloat is from codesharing, using the actual operators code feels like an obvious solution unless egos are too fragile.
It's not ego, it's marketing, loyalty, and customer comfort. Passengers don't want to see "multiple airlines" in their itinerary. They wonder if the baggage allowances are the same, and if those bags will make it all the way to the final destination. They wonder if they'll get miles on their "main" airline for the whole trip, or if it will be broken up between different loyalty programs. They wonder if the connection…
That sounds a lot like party-line arguments honestly, maybe rooted in 1960s issues
1: If I've paid on a non budget airlines _site_ (like Lufthansa,Air France,SAS,etc) and then see another livery on the plane I'm boarding that I'm not expecting I'd be slightly disappointed and lose trust in the selling airline regardless of any codeshare. If I see when ordering on the SAS site that the second leg on a route is handled by Lufthansa I'm not gonna worry.
2: Baggage allowance is clearly stated when ordering tickets online from a serious airline (because they love to show low prices for no checked in baggage and scrounge you for any extras).
3: I was actually wondering about that on a recent flight so I kept an eye on details and the baggage tag receipt I got clearly stated the route I was flying so I knew the baggage would end up where needed.
4: Bonus program points are usually stated when ordering.
5: The US should just follow the EU lead and harmonize rules a bit (maybe there's already some basic rules in place?), EC 261 has codified some basic rules to alleviate traveler worries in terms of responsibilities when it comes to delays and cancellations. (1)
It's 2024 and we really don't need to pile on bad cludges upon 1960s solutions to keep things working.
And yes, yesterday or today might've been the time to start a process to extent the flight code system within a 20 year horizon, but to extend it in a hurry because of airlines duplicating crap with codeshares is just silly.
1: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-right...
Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers
#450Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the point, instead of rewriting a full stack, I would rather change the prototype of these APIs. To store 999.999.999.999, then you are totally fine with a 64-bits INT (QWORD), and there is no struggle to backward-compatibility store a 32-bits INT (DWORD) into it. It's more of a matter of doing #ifdef IPV4_EXTENDED #define DWORD QWORD #endif and add an extra IP field inside the IP header packet itself that sa…
You do realize sockaddr_in is an abstraction for data structure here, yes? https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc791#page-11 Where is that new address going in the header? If it's going in the same spot in the packet header as the current IPv4 address, how do you make sure that the 20-30 routers owned by 3 different companies that are likely to be between your computer and the destination computer exhibit a behavi…
It's written above, bridge destination address in the "legacy" IPv4 destination header, and that bridge can be figured out by looking up the reverse dns entries on a IPv4 Extended IP, until the user is natively using an IPv4 Extended network.
This brings the packet closer to the destination.
The new address goes into the Options field, you can store lot of data there (somewhere up-to-60 bytes, and we need 1 or 2 byte actually).
Reminder: The goal is to add one-byte to have more IP addresses, not rewrite the whole internet.
Here it looks like the guys wanted to fix that IP allocation problem, and then they went all-in, and decided to rewrite everything at the same time.
It's ok, and even a good idea in theory, but network administrators don't like to be pressured "in emergency" into upgrading to this solution.
The practice shows that people rather prefer doing NAT than IPv6.