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OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

theverge.com

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Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

#71

Post by falcor84 »

tgv wrote: post #69
falcor84 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the parent, but I personally would want tech to erode education exactly to the level where students aren't asked any more to spend time on things that machines can perform trivially for us. Education should prepare us for the real world of today, rather than some make-belief role play version of a bureaucratic office from the late 19th century, where we don't have computers and the only way you have of affecting…

Education should train your brain, not "prepare for the real world," if only because you can't define how to do that, nor what real world needs are. Is math a real world need? Grammar? Geography? Sports? Biology? With the silly reduction to "things that machines can perform trivially for us" even reading and writing won't be needed. And like that, there's suddenly a great surplus of farm hands, miners, and opioid use…

[dead]

Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

#72

Post by lores »

jeanlucas wrote: post #66
lores wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open AI literally said they have a semi-resilient method with 99.9% accuracy. It will become full-resilient for practical purposes if all LLMs implement something similar.

> Open AI literally said they have a semi-resilient method with 99.9% accuracy. They also said many other things that never happened. And they never showed it. I bet $100 they do not have a semi-resilient method with 99.9% accuracy, especially with all the evolving issues around "human vs computer" made content. I bet you also the `semi-` in the beginning leaves a lot of room for interpretation and they are not relea…

I really don't see what's in it for them to brag about a non-existent feature that's not in their commercial interest when its non-implementation can be turned into a stick to beat them with, so I believe they have something, yes. I don't necessarily believe the 99.9%, but with that proviso I'll take your bet.

Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

#73

Post by xigoi »

falcor84 wrote: post #26
tgv wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem trackable. And it may not be perfect, but that's no reason to discard it. At the moment, it's being used at a large scale to avoid homework by lazy students, which is nearly everyone. How much further do you want tech to erode education?

Not the parent, but I personally would want tech to erode education exactly to the level where students aren't asked any more to spend time on things that machines can perform trivially for us. Education should prepare us for the real world of today, rather than some make-belief role play version of a bureaucratic office from the late 19th century, where we don't have computers and the only way you have of affecting…

> where students aren't asked any more to spend time on things that machines can perform trivially for us.

Why do people lift weights at the gym if machines can trivially do that?

Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

#74

Post by falcor84 »

xigoi wrote: post #73
falcor84 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the parent, but I personally would want tech to erode education exactly to the level where students aren't asked any more to spend time on things that machines can perform trivially for us. Education should prepare us for the real world of today, rather than some make-belief role play version of a bureaucratic office from the late 19th century, where we don't have computers and the only way you have of affecting…

> where students aren't asked any more to spend time on things that machines can perform trivially for us. Why do people lift weights at the gym if machines can trivially do that?

I'm pretty sure that if those electric muscle stimulation devices actually worked well enough to allow people to build muscles without needing to go to the gym, they'd do that, at least I would.

Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

#75

Post by xigoi »

falcor84 wrote: post #74
xigoi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where students aren't asked any more to spend time on things that machines can perform trivially for us. Why do people lift weights at the gym if machines can trivially do that?

I'm pretty sure that if those electric muscle stimulation devices actually worked well enough to allow people to build muscles without needing to go to the gym, they'd do that, at least I would.

Does ChatGPT allow you to learn without studying?

Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

#76

Post by mike_hearn »

lores wrote: post #58
fragmede wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is your parenthetical - it's not possible, so attempting to do so isn't actually really possible. what's worse than a watermark? one that doesn't actually work.

Open AI literally said they have a semi-resilient method with 99.9% accuracy. It will become full-resilient for practical purposes if all LLMs implement something similar.

The Verge doesn't report this, but other reports have said that the watermark is easily beatable by doing things like a Google Translate roundtrip, or asking the model to add emoji and then deleting them.

Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

#77

Post by mike_hearn »

FeepingCreature wrote: post #15
matusp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when GPT-2 was "too dangerous" to release. I am confused why people still take these clown claims seriously.

GPT-2 was never too dangerous to release, that's made up. OpenAI were trying to set a precedent to delay releases in anticipation of more dangerous models. This was and remains a good thing.

Made up? From the GPT-2 announcement: https://openai.com/index/better-language-models/

"Due to our concerns about malicious applications of the technology, we are not releasing the trained model."

OpenAI said specifically they didn't release it because they thought it was too dangerous to release. There was nothing about precedent setting in there. The idea that this "was and remains" a good thing is hard to understand, given there are dozens of companies that have made much more powerful models available to anyone who signs up and nothing bad has happened. But if you're willing to ascribe intentions to AI companies they never demonstrated having, of course you can argue anything you want. Doesn't mean it's real.

Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

#78

Post by mike_hearn »

aurareturn wrote: post #19
wongarsu wrote: post #5

Remember when GPT was "too dangerous" to release into the world and unless you were twitter-famous you had to apply and wait for months to even get access? Times sure have changed

Did people say GPT from OpenAI was too dangerous to release? Or was it the fact that OpenAI has demonstrated how good LLMs can get and that bad actors can train their own, uncensored, unaligned LLMS to do "dangerous" things?

OpenAI themselves said that.

https://openai.com/index/better-language-models/

Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

#79

Post by raxxorraxor »

pona-a wrote: post #13

What we're seeing is a new profitable industry, with a tendency towards natural monopoly, refusing to act in the public good because its incentives conflict with it. At stake is the entire corpus of 21st century media, at risk of being drowned out in a tsunami of statistically unidentifiable spam, which has already begun and will only get worse, until nobody will even acknowledge the web post 2022 as worth reading or…

I don't think this is a good idea. Also, how would you watermark text exactly? Hash all generated texts that were ever put out? Not feasible I believe and easily circumvented.

I can run a specialized AI trained to a certain domain on my laptop that reaches GPT levels and sometimes even beyond that. The work needed here is exactly what malicious actors would also invest and they would have competitive advantage.

I believe we should watch the developments, but I don't believe regulation is warranted yet.

Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught

#80

Post by falcor84 »

xigoi wrote: post #75
falcor84 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that if those electric muscle stimulation devices actually worked well enough to allow people to build muscles without needing to go to the gym, they'd do that, at least I would.

Does ChatGPT allow you to learn without studying?

Yes, in a way. When I want to do something that I've never done before (typically as part of a larger project I'm working on), I often ask ChatGPT/Claude for advice and get really useful just-in-time explanations, as part of a conversation that I often continue throughout my work on that task, getting additional support and guidance. I usually learn a lot from these conversations, such that the next time I approach a similar situation, I can generally do so on my own.

I'm not necessarily arguing that there's no more need for any ahead of time "study", but I think that with the equivalent of a personal tutor for everyone, we can achieve a lot more by learning while doing, instead of study being a dedicated activity.

I might be a bit sentimental here, but some of these interactions with an LLM bring back memories of me being a kid working on some small project at home on a Saturday, and being able to come to my dad for advice and even hands-on assistance. And on a less sentimental note, I believe that effective use of an LLM while working on a project fits really well with Papert's Constructionism approach to learning.

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