Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 761 posts

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#511

Post by meiraleal »

slaymaker1907 wrote: post #261
knuckleheads wrote: post #37

> Mehta’s decision is expected to trigger a separate proceeding to determine what penalties Google will face – and the company is also likely to file an appeal As a Google antitrust watcher, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop with what remedies the court will actually recommend to correct this monopoly. If you ask 20 experts, who all otherwise agree that Google is a monopoly, you might get 40 different answers ab…

I’m not really sure how you fix it. Considering it specifically calls out being the default option on iOS, we can assume that’s going to change. However, I could also see Chrome’s market dominance challenged. Maybe they’ll be forced to somehow split that off and Chrome will need to be funded through some combination of donations or selling its own ads/data.

An independent Chrome App Store would easily achieve profitability. There are more than 3 billion chrome users.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#512

Post by singularity2001 »

dehrmann wrote: post #434
nabla9 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what's going to happen? Apple might make their own search engine. Apple has a team that's been creating a next-generation search engine codenamed Pegasus under John Giannandrea. They already have search engines for App Store, Maps, Apple TV and News and Spotlight. Apple web search development worked as bargaining chip in pricing negotiations with Google. Google paid them $20 billion per year to not compete as mu…

> [Apple] already have search engines for App Store, Maps, Apple TV and News and Spotlight. This is completely different than a general-purpose search engine.

and they even completely fail at this easier task

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#513

Post by singularity2001 »

nabla9 wrote: post #121
cletus wrote: post #31

I expect this to be bad for everyone except Google if the ruling holds. Why? Mozilla and Apple will lose significant revenue from having Google as the default search engine and Google will no longer have to pay those billions. What's more, no one else can pay to be the default either (eg the short-lived Mozilla Bing deal). So what's going to happen? Most users will probably still use Google, nobody is getting paid an…

> So what's going to happen? Apple might make their own search engine. Apple has a team that's been creating a next-generation search engine codenamed Pegasus under John Giannandrea. They already have search engines for App Store, Maps, Apple TV and News and Spotlight. Apple web search development worked as bargaining chip in pricing negotiations with Google. Google paid them $20 billion per year to not compete as mu…

   > They already have search engines for App Store
if their Internet search engine was as good as their App Store search engine then we would need to wait half a minute to get oranges if we search for tomatoes

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#514

Post by lolinder »

crazygringo wrote: post #407
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google: Hands 20 billion to Apple to keep defaults to Google. You: No, defaults aren't incredibly powerful.

Those are not incompatible statements at all. Obviously, defaults matter to some degree . They have a price. Google and Apple are companies with market caps in the trillions , and at their scale the default has a price in billions, since a small shift redirects a ton of ad revenue. That's fine. But they're not "incredibly powerful", which implies that most users won't change them. As I pointed out, most users do chan…

> Google and Apple are companies with market caps in the trillions, and at their scale the default has a price in billions

This is HN's regular reminder that market cap measures the value of the company in the eyes of investors, not its revenue or profit.

Apple had gross revenue of $365 billion and Google $257 billion in 2021, the year in which Google paid Apple $26 billion.

That means that in that year Google paid Apple a solid 10% of their revenue and Google's payment accounted for 7% of Apple's gross revenue. To put that in perspective: that puts this deal on the same scale of importance as a car payment or utilities are for the average US household.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#515

Post by kiwijamo »

chadash wrote: post #62
causal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. People use Google because it's the default, not because they will go out of their way to keep using it. The minute Apple changes the iPhone default, all but a few iPhone users stop using Google.

Chrome is not anyone's default browser, but it still has dominance. People will be bothered a little under some circumstances.

Very strange statement to make given a large mobile phone operating system (Android) has Chrome as the default browser. Also the default in some Linux distros such as the Raspberry Pi OS. And many PC builders bundle Chrome with their usual crapware. Other posters have also pointed out Google's own Chromebooks use Chrome by default as well. Quite a significant base especially among people who don't have the money to buy into the Apple ecosystem.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#516

Post by notinmykernel »

nabla9 wrote: post #121
cletus wrote: post #31

I expect this to be bad for everyone except Google if the ruling holds. Why? Mozilla and Apple will lose significant revenue from having Google as the default search engine and Google will no longer have to pay those billions. What's more, no one else can pay to be the default either (eg the short-lived Mozilla Bing deal). So what's going to happen? Most users will probably still use Google, nobody is getting paid an…

> So what's going to happen? Apple might make their own search engine. Apple has a team that's been creating a next-generation search engine codenamed Pegasus under John Giannandrea. They already have search engines for App Store, Maps, Apple TV and News and Spotlight. Apple web search development worked as bargaining chip in pricing negotiations with Google. Google paid them $20 billion per year to not compete as mu…

Honestly, I'm surprised to see anyone talk explicitly about Apple internal works. Is that public knowledge?

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#517

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

cletus wrote: post #31

I expect this to be bad for everyone except Google if the ruling holds. Why? Mozilla and Apple will lose significant revenue from having Google as the default search engine and Google will no longer have to pay those billions. What's more, no one else can pay to be the default either (eg the short-lived Mozilla Bing deal). So what's going to happen? Most users will probably still use Google, nobody is getting paid an…

"I expect this to be bad for everyone except Google if the ruling holds."

If the decision will not be bad for Google, then why would Google spend so much money and time to defend against it.^1

Why not just stop making the anti-competitive payments and terminate the agreements. Money saved. Problem solved.

We can now safely say it is not a defense to claim "Google is the best" and that's why people choose it. Anti-competitive conduct is illegal. Whether it is prudent or not. It makes no difference whether the payments were actually "necessary".^2 Google made them anyway, repeatedly.

1. Even more, this "prediction" implies there will be an appeal ("... if this ruling holds."). Why bother with an appeal if this decision has no negative effect on Google.

2. One only needs to show the conduct had an anti-competitive effect.

Please read the decision:

https://static01.nyt.com/newsgraphics/documenttools/f6ab5c36...

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#518

Post by jmspring »

cletus wrote: post #31

I expect this to be bad for everyone except Google if the ruling holds. Why? Mozilla and Apple will lose significant revenue from having Google as the default search engine and Google will no longer have to pay those billions. What's more, no one else can pay to be the default either (eg the short-lived Mozilla Bing deal). So what's going to happen? Most users will probably still use Google, nobody is getting paid an…

Google is going to lose money. Their search has been declining for years and the top 1/2 or so of a search is nothing but ads. So, while they may pay for deals, they will likely also lose traffic that helps pay for those deals.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#519

Post by teitoklien »

singularity2001 wrote: post #513
nabla9 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what's going to happen? Apple might make their own search engine. Apple has a team that's been creating a next-generation search engine codenamed Pegasus under John Giannandrea. They already have search engines for App Store, Maps, Apple TV and News and Spotlight. Apple web search development worked as bargaining chip in pricing negotiations with Google. Google paid them $20 billion per year to not compete as mu…

> They already have search engines for App Store if their Internet search engine was as good as their App Store search engine then we would need to wait half a minute to get oranges if we search for tomatoes

They already have a tiny instant search engine which shows 1 result of a url at top.

I’d say its pretty accurate and impressive 95% of the time to the point im impressed at how good its suggestions are considering it’s just the top 1 search.

Re: Google loses antitrust suit over search deals on phones

#520

Post by teitoklien »

notinmykernel wrote: post #516
nabla9 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what's going to happen? Apple might make their own search engine. Apple has a team that's been creating a next-generation search engine codenamed Pegasus under John Giannandrea. They already have search engines for App Store, Maps, Apple TV and News and Spotlight. Apple web search development worked as bargaining chip in pricing negotiations with Google. Google paid them $20 billion per year to not compete as mu…

Honestly, I'm surprised to see anyone talk explicitly about Apple internal works. Is that public knowledge?

Yes, all info here:

[9to5Mac article on apple search engine](https://9to5mac.com/2023/10/02/apple-pegasus-google-search/)

Post reply on HN