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Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

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Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#261
post #83

I love that so many people here think they can think about the problem for 10 seconds and come up with a solution that hasn't already been considered a thousand times and discarded.

It’s the age old problem with software developers.

A problem posited without sufficient solutions is an invitation to them to provide a solution for that problem solving dopamine hit.

Nevermind that nobody has asked for such a thing or whether they’re familiar with the problem space themselves.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand. My router gives me an IPv6 address...

Do you understand on what basis? Do you know enough to assign addresses in a way that you, not your router, wants? Can you ssh/other forms of remote into any machine that accepts ssh on your local network using only ipv6? Can you redirect ports to specific local machines using only ipv6 (that implies they keep constant addresses)? Can you easily switch between two internet connections going through different routers…

> Do you know enough to assign addresses in a way that you, not your router, wants?

If I want to manually assign addresses it's still pretty simple, but in the end I normally just don't care. I don't want to know what IP my printer is, I just want to reach it. Which isn't a challenge at all. Even for things at my home that are IPv4 only they're practically all DHCP. Because there's little reason to ever really care about something's address.

> Can you ssh/other forms of remote into any machine that accepts ssh on your local network using only ipv6?

I have no problems reaching any host on any of my networks even if they're running only IPv6. It's nice too because I can trivially reach any port I want globally as well with a basic firewall change. Even better I can have one host have many IP addresses with different services bound to each address if I want.

> Can you redirect ports to specific local machines using only ipv6 (that implies they keep constant addresses)?

Why do any port redirection at all? Just set the firewall rule and things can hit it. And yeah, they can keep constant addresses. They can have dozens, hundreds of static host addresses if I want.

> Can you easily switch between two internet connections going through different routers that are plugged into the same switch for any machine on your local network using only ipv6?

If that's something you're really wanting, Network Prefix Translation can be done pretty easily. But the vast majority of home users aren't using dual WAN anyways.

> This is all easily doable with ipv4 in like two afternoons

Sounds like your setup with IPv4 took more work than mine with IPv6, as mine only took me an hour or so while yours took multiple days.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever changed the static IP address of a computer? You just “recycled” a “globally unique” ID. Recycling unique IDs (more precisely: changing the underlying thing the ID points to) is not impossible; there’s lots of pathological failure modes; for certain ID-spaces it’s kinda a required use case; so we have to deal with it.

IP addresses (especially IPv4) are not even supposed to be globally unique. How many 192.168.1.1 devices are out there? How many different distinct physical boxes respond to traffic going to 1.1.1.1?

You're right but for the wrong reason. You are referencing the private blocks that are designed for private use. The vast majority are not designed for private use.

The reason it's not unique (using my rudamentry understanding of networking) is because multiple routers can broadcast the same IP so devices can use the closest router.

However I think it's fair to say IP address are intended to be unique to an org while private ips are not.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which explains why professionals have so eagerly adopted it over the last two decades

Reminds me of the line that network engineers love implementing IPv6 so much they have been doing it for years

We could also have bumped 255.255.255.255 to 999.999.999.999 = 1 trillion IP addresses, easy-to-remember and backward compatibility with legacy devices.

Modern clients and servers get IP addresses in these new whole IP ranges and can communicate together.

Relatively easy to adapt the code of modern software also since it's about removing a restriction from a client-perspective.

Load-balancers and legacy clients use IP addresses from the old pool.

If you have Windows XP you can communicate only to legacy IPv4 (in practice only loadbalancers from Cloudflare, GCP, AWS and co) and your other legacy stuff. Others happily communicate together.

But no, we got this wonderful IPv6.

Sad because it was really doable, theoretical maximum below 512 GB of memory for routers to store the whole routing table, it's manageable, versus the 2.176×10^22 exabytes (!) of IPv6.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#266
post #227

> Here’s the full answer, along with how they triage the problem – for instance by assigning the same flight number to more than one flight a day (although that means they need for it to be flights that would never both be in the air at the same time, such as where the same plane is used and can’t reasonably be substituted) This sounds like it's calling for trouble! Whenever I hear that any IDs could be "recycled", I…

I'm certain each flight has its own completely unique ID buried somewhere in a database. But, shorter codes can be spoken into a radio faster and with lower probability of misinterpretation - both critical features for air traffic control. Those shorter codes will necessarily be reused, it's just a question of the time interval between re-uses of any particular code. I faintly recall seeing two Southwest flights from…

I thought that airlines that fly the same origin to destination daily at the same time always use the same flight number for that flight each day.

At least that's what I feel like I normally see.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#267
post #227

> Here’s the full answer, along with how they triage the problem – for instance by assigning the same flight number to more than one flight a day (although that means they need for it to be flights that would never both be in the air at the same time, such as where the same plane is used and can’t reasonably be substituted) This sounds like it's calling for trouble! Whenever I hear that any IDs could be "recycled", I…

> although that means they need for it to be flights that would never both be in the air at the same time It's interesting that this is called out, because there are frequently at multiple flights in the air with the same flight number QF1 / QF2 is now over 24 hours, and has daily flights. It seems pretty feasible to have the SIN-LHR leg be delayed just enough so there's two SIN-LHR QF1s in the air at the same time.…

I think you do not need 24 hour flights for that. Some flight numbers are used multiple times throughout the day. If one gets delayed too much, then two planes can be in the sky at the same time with the same flight number.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm certain each flight has its own completely unique ID buried somewhere in a database. But, shorter codes can be spoken into a radio faster and with lower probability of misinterpretation - both critical features for air traffic control. Those shorter codes will necessarily be reused, it's just a question of the time interval between re-uses of any particular code. I faintly recall seeing two Southwest flights from…

I thought that airlines that fly the same origin to destination daily at the same time always use the same flight number for that flight each day. At least that's what I feel like I normally see.

Not always but often.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#269
I generally know better than to read the native comments on articles like this, but I've not really woken up yet. Are those merely stupid when they suggest using alphanumeric, or are they abominably stupid because the backend only allows numeric codes?

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#270
post #227

> Here’s the full answer, along with how they triage the problem – for instance by assigning the same flight number to more than one flight a day (although that means they need for it to be flights that would never both be in the air at the same time, such as where the same plane is used and can’t reasonably be substituted) This sounds like it's calling for trouble! Whenever I hear that any IDs could be "recycled", I…

I'm certain each flight has its own completely unique ID buried somewhere in a database. But, shorter codes can be spoken into a radio faster and with lower probability of misinterpretation - both critical features for air traffic control. Those shorter codes will necessarily be reused, it's just a question of the time interval between re-uses of any particular code. I faintly recall seeing two Southwest flights from…

There are usually flights from hub to spoke, and spoke to hub, and each one will have the same number. This is within a 24 hour period. 3934 is one such flight between PHX and SEA.
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