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The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

businessinsider.com

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Re: The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

#31

Post by carstenhag »

watwut wrote: post #4
Sakos wrote: post #2

The whole purpose of Duolingo is emotional and psychological manipulation to get us to override our tendencies to procrastinate, forget, etc. Otherwise we'd just pick up a foreign language book. I don't really get the framing of this article.

You cant learn foreign language from a book. Or, very very few people ever succeeded to learn basics of reading and write in foreign language from a book. And you can not possibly learn listening and talking.

Why can't you? As someone else already said, it's a combination. I'm learning french and I'm enjoying A1/A2-specific books and newspapers (Zeit Sprachen, idk if something like this exists in other countries)

Re: The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

#32

Post by ryukoposting »

gwervc wrote: post #19
ryukoposting wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Duolingo for the exact reasons you don't. I want to learn a language, and I will need to know the basics to be able to talk to people on my honeymoon next year. What you see as "nagging" I see as "holding me accountable to a goal I've set for myself." I can definitely see why you'd want to be able to dial back the notifications, though. On principle, I'd usually be on your side in this kind of situation. But a…

> I want to learn a language Then why are you using Duolingo in the first place? That app has to be the worst method, because people think they are progressing while they in fact don't. From personal experience it's the worst method I tired to learn a language, and the content present for languages I know isn't good either.

I plan on adding a community college class into the mix, so there is some education outside of the app that will happen eventually. But, there's at least a few reasons why you'd use Duolingo exclusively.

1. If you can't afford something better. I keep getting pummeled on the leaderboard by people doing 5000+ XP/week worth of English for Spanish Speakers. None of them have Super Duolingo (you can see if they have it by looking at their profile)

2. If you're testing the waters. I already talked about the money, but a semester of a language class is a big time commitment, too. You also lose scheduling flexibility that's especially desirable when you don't know if you want to commit to a class yet.

Then there's supplemental, extracurricular practice. If you never use a language outside of class, you'll lose it very quickly. Anyone who had to take a language class in middle/high school knows this. Duolingo (or any other app) can help reinforce learning, by regularly poking the "foreign language" part of your brain, even on days when you aren't in class.

Re: The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

#33

Post by barrell »

aswerty wrote: post #8

If the features of Duolingo are available in another app (i.e. their various memorization techniques, vocabulary building, various interactive learning, etc.) that doesn't gamify or nag. Let me know since I really detest these aspects of Duolingo. I succumbed to paying for the app since it is virtually unusable with the frequency of ads on the freemium model. They are a very dislikable brand.

Could you elaborate on which features you'd miss from Duolingo if you switched?

For context I'm working on a language learning app (phrasing.app) and I'm pretty against gamification. I've got a couple different review methods (listening, tapping, and typing) but I assume you're referring to a more complete feature set.

PS: If anyone wants to beta test the application, contact me on twitter @barrelltech. I just got everything re-released this weekend, so I'm just now starting to work on user guides and documentation!

Re: The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

#34

Post by barrell »

carstenhag wrote: post #30
aswerty wrote: post #8

If the features of Duolingo are available in another app (i.e. their various memorization techniques, vocabulary building, various interactive learning, etc.) that doesn't gamify or nag. Let me know since I really detest these aspects of Duolingo. I succumbed to paying for the app since it is virtually unusable with the frequency of ads on the freemium model. They are a very dislikable brand.

I like Lingvist for vocabulary building, but it's also not perfect.

If you were in charge of Lingvist, what would you change/build?

edit: long time lingvist user, I'm also a huuuuge fan.

Re: The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

#35

Post by aswerty »

BlanketLogic wrote: post #21
aswerty wrote: post #8

If the features of Duolingo are available in another app (i.e. their various memorization techniques, vocabulary building, various interactive learning, etc.) that doesn't gamify or nag. Let me know since I really detest these aspects of Duolingo. I succumbed to paying for the app since it is virtually unusable with the frequency of ads on the freemium model. They are a very dislikable brand.

FWIW, I found Busuu great. After a year on busuu and 1000 days on duolingo, I find the former way better for language acquisition.

Thanks for the recommendation. But just checking it out there,it seems to also follow a gamification model that forces you to click "commitment" buttons like you are some kind of child.

Re: The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

#36

Post by anonfornoreason »

ryukoposting wrote: post #14
aswerty wrote: post #8

If the features of Duolingo are available in another app (i.e. their various memorization techniques, vocabulary building, various interactive learning, etc.) that doesn't gamify or nag. Let me know since I really detest these aspects of Duolingo. I succumbed to paying for the app since it is virtually unusable with the frequency of ads on the freemium model. They are a very dislikable brand.

I like Duolingo for the exact reasons you don't. I want to learn a language, and I will need to know the basics to be able to talk to people on my honeymoon next year. What you see as "nagging" I see as "holding me accountable to a goal I've set for myself." I can definitely see why you'd want to be able to dial back the notifications, though. On principle, I'd usually be on your side in this kind of situation. But a…

If it’s important, why cede control of your own discipline to a notification loop of a for-profit company? A technique I like to use is to wake up an hour early everyday and do some studying before anyone else is awake. Making dedicated time for something is like making a commitment to myself. Strengthens my ability to do it each time, feels more like I am in control.

Awesome to be learning something new either way though!

Edit: I reworded my original comment to sound much less harsh. Same sentiment, better delivery!

Re: The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

#37

Post by aswerty »

barrell wrote: post #33
aswerty wrote: post #8

If the features of Duolingo are available in another app (i.e. their various memorization techniques, vocabulary building, various interactive learning, etc.) that doesn't gamify or nag. Let me know since I really detest these aspects of Duolingo. I succumbed to paying for the app since it is virtually unusable with the frequency of ads on the freemium model. They are a very dislikable brand.

Could you elaborate on which features you'd miss from Duolingo if you switched? For context I'm working on a language learning app (phrasing.app) and I'm pretty against gamification. I've got a couple different review methods (listening, tapping, and typing) but I assume you're referring to a more complete feature set. PS: If anyone wants to beta test the application, contact me on twitter @barrelltech. I just got ev…

I don't think they do anything special. It's just on aggregate between their various interactive mechanisms, there is nice variance to the types of interaction you get to do. Speaking, typing, word selection, etc.

Re: The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

#38

Post by meiraleal »

anonfornoreason wrote: post #36
ryukoposting wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Duolingo for the exact reasons you don't. I want to learn a language, and I will need to know the basics to be able to talk to people on my honeymoon next year. What you see as "nagging" I see as "holding me accountable to a goal I've set for myself." I can definitely see why you'd want to be able to dial back the notifications, though. On principle, I'd usually be on your side in this kind of situation. But a…

If it’s important, why cede control of your own discipline to a notification loop of a for-profit company? A technique I like to use is to wake up an hour early everyday and do some studying before anyone else is awake. Making dedicated time for something is like making a commitment to myself. Strengthens my ability to do it each time, feels more like I am in control. Awesome to be learning something new either way t…

Why poor people just don't get rich?

You might not lack discipline but most people that lacks it have a really hard time doing this:

"if you need to learn something, set a schedule like an hour each morning before anyone else is up, and take control and learn it."

Re: The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

#39

Post by netsharc »

aswerty wrote: post #8

If the features of Duolingo are available in another app (i.e. their various memorization techniques, vocabulary building, various interactive learning, etc.) that doesn't gamify or nag. Let me know since I really detest these aspects of Duolingo. I succumbed to paying for the app since it is virtually unusable with the frequency of ads on the freemium model. They are a very dislikable brand.

With a PiHole/DNS blocking of ad servers, I just get their presumably baked-in "Get Super Duolingo" ads, these are not skippable but I just close the app and reopen it a second later.

Re: The meanest app: Duolingo subjects its users to "emotional blackmail"

#40

Post by aswerty »

djaouen wrote: post #18
aswerty wrote: post #8

If the features of Duolingo are available in another app (i.e. their various memorization techniques, vocabulary building, various interactive learning, etc.) that doesn't gamify or nag. Let me know since I really detest these aspects of Duolingo. I succumbed to paying for the app since it is virtually unusable with the frequency of ads on the freemium model. They are a very dislikable brand.

Babbel or Rosetta Stone

Can you elaborate? It seems pretty opaque what they are like since it seems to be credit card up front with both of them.
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