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Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

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Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#221
post #11

The entire aviation industry feels like it is in need of a tech stack 100% rebuild. Systems like Sabre are 60+ years old.

The problem is more the airlines, IATA and everything else, not so much the reservations systems like Sabre. Those airlines are annoyingly ignorant with their IT, for whatever reason. Sabre&Co. are very active in updating their systems, they could probably any time lift the limitations.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#222
post #83

I love that so many people here think they can think about the problem for 10 seconds and come up with a solution that hasn't already been considered a thousand times and discarded.

My solution:

Stop codesharing with marketing flight numbers that are useless. Airlines do perfectly fine selling tickets without having the flight marketed by themselves and they can handle inter-airline agreements without it.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#223
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enormous path dependance. There's a photo in that article that shows the problem: the flip-tab sign that has space for four numerical digits. I was thinking they could just switch from 0-9 to 0-9A-Z but that photo showed why that would be a disaster. Plus any solution has to be approved for use worldwide. Fortunately the two-digit IATA codes have already switched to 0-9A-Z (e.g. JetBlue is B6) so allowing constrained…

How many airports still have flip-tab signs? Do they need to stay? Aren't they adding to an already noisy area? What's their maintenance cost vs. a LCD? What's their energy consumption vs. a LCD?

>What's their energy consumption vs. a LCD?

Zero when they're not flipping, and close to zero when they are. Even under direct sunlight, to overcome which LCDs need >100W / square meter.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#224
post #83

I love that so many people here think they can think about the problem for 10 seconds and come up with a solution that hasn't already been considered a thousand times and discarded.

There aren't that many solutions. You can go to 5 digit numbers, or use 4 characters with an expanded alphabet, or do nothing. What other solutions could there possibly be?

Change the way you use the numbers

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#225
post #80

Clearly the successor solution is to use eight groups of four hexadecimal digits each, separated by colons. Then each individual seat and peanut could be addressed to it's final destination. More seriously the solution suggested of giving the 3 companies other unused prefixes like D* U* and A* to use with their codeshares and non rev flights to start seems the easiest.

The even more simpler solution is to just give up on unique identifiers within an airline and simply give each airplane its own name space. The existing system of a 4 digits can then continue, and all that is required is to use a bunch of translation layers to figure out which airline and which plane corresponds to a specific flight.

Adding a prefix would mean that all software need to change at the same time in order to include the prefix. Adding translation layers can be done on top of existing old software.

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#226
post #160

I don't even understand the point of code-share flight numbers. The first thing I do when I see one is look up the original flight number. Most flight search engines will also show you the original carrier. Why not just get rid of them and book on the original flight number? Is it needed somehow in their systems to know how a flight was booked or what flights are eligible? Can that be fixed instead of the flight numb…

Recently, I flew with gf on Etihad from MEL to CDG, via Abu Dhabi. We weren't allowed into the Etihad lounge in Abu Dhabi because even though our flight from there to CDG was an Etihad code, it was codeshare with Air France. Believe me when I say I was pissed and made sure everybody knew, including the travel agent that booked us that deals with high end corporate travellers. Etihad lost a bunch of business from AU b…

It sounds like the travel agent’s fault for not booking the flight properly. Delta Skyclubs have the marketed and operated by rule, meaning that if you buy and get the ticket issued by Air France then you would have a flight marketed by Air France but Operated by Delta. Of course if this was on a business class ticket you’d have access to any SkyTeam lounges anyways.

Basically your travel agent is incompetent

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#227
> Here’s the full answer, along with how they triage the problem – for instance by assigning the same flight number to more than one flight a day (although that means they need for it to be flights that would never both be in the air at the same time, such as where the same plane is used and can’t reasonably be substituted)

This sounds like it's calling for trouble!

Whenever I hear that any IDs could be "recycled", I make a mental note to replace the person making such a proposal from all teams that I am involved in.

The worst is I once was put to work on a system where they even recycled GUIDs... I thought "which part of GUID do you not understand, the G part or the U part?" (from which it follows they also don't really understand what ID means)...

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#228
post #227

> Here’s the full answer, along with how they triage the problem – for instance by assigning the same flight number to more than one flight a day (although that means they need for it to be flights that would never both be in the air at the same time, such as where the same plane is used and can’t reasonably be substituted) This sounds like it's calling for trouble! Whenever I hear that any IDs could be "recycled", I…

>Whenever I hear that any IDs could be "recycled", I make a mental note to replace the person making such a proposal from all teams that I am involved in.

Couldn't agree more, not even interested in debating it

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IPv6 is seen and used directly by professionals, not the general public. Overbuilding it in the sense being mocked made sense.

Which explains why professionals have so eagerly adopted it over the last two decades

Reminds me of the line that network engineers love implementing IPv6 so much they have been doing it for years

Re: Airlines are running out of 4-digit flight numbers

#230
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enormous path dependance. There's a photo in that article that shows the problem: the flip-tab sign that has space for four numerical digits. I was thinking they could just switch from 0-9 to 0-9A-Z but that photo showed why that would be a disaster. Plus any solution has to be approved for use worldwide. Fortunately the two-digit IATA codes have already switched to 0-9A-Z (e.g. JetBlue is B6) so allowing constrained…

> Plus any solution has to be approved for use worldwide. I don't see why for instance you could do a slow roll out by using only letters for internal flights of countries that are ready for the switch. If you did that at first only for the USA that would probably leave enough room for Delta and the 2 other companies that need them in the short term. And then you upgrade the rest of north america: Mexico + Canada, th…

I thought of this but you need to be able to book flights in Europe from, say, Mozambique. Flights from Europe may overfly Kazakhstan ATC. And so on. It’s a system.
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