We solved this with a simple but novel solution that is doesn't break with rewording/paraphrasing. The problem we've run into is that teachers don't want to have the hard conversation when they get the evidence of cheating. And school leadership don't want to fix the issue, they want to put a chatbot on their resume. Sadly, I don't think OpenAI releasing this would have any effect fixing the problem. It's a problem with the people in education.
OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught
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Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught
#12On a personal level, I'm happy about this. Having all personal info trackable is a tiring aspect of modern life? Remember when social media didn't zero out the exif on photos and anyone could easily grab a map to your family's home? On a society level? I'm stil ok with this. Watermarks are trivially removed by the motivated and unpleasant.
It doesn't seem trackable. And it may not be perfect, but that's no reason to discard it. At the moment, it's being used at a large scale to avoid homework by lazy students, which is nearly everyone. How much further do you want tech to erode education?
Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught
#13What we're seeing is a new profitable industry, with a tendency towards natural monopoly, refusing to act in the public good because its incentives conflict with it. At stake is the entire corpus of 21st century media, at risk of being drowned out in a tsunami of statistically unidentifiable spam, which has already begun and will only get worse, until nobody will even acknowledge the web post 2022 as worth reading or archiving.
The solution is very, very simple: just regulate it. Force all companies training LLMs to add some method of watermarking with a mean error rate below a set value. OpenAI's concern is that users will switch away to other vendors if they add watermarks? Well, if nobody can provide that service, OpenAI still has the lead. A portion of the market may indeed cease to exist, but in the same vein, if we had always prioritized markets over ethics, nobody would be opposed to having a blooming hitman industry.
Open weights models do exist, but they require much greater investment, which many of the abusers aren't willing to make. Large models already require enough GPU power to be barely competitive with underpaid human labor, and smaller ones seem to already fall into semi-predictable patterns that may not even need watermarking. Ready-made inference APIs can too include some light watermarking, while with general purpose notebooks/VMs, the question may still be open.
Still, it's all about effort to effect ratio. Sometimes inconvenience is enough to approximate practical impossibility for 80% of the users.
Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught
#14> On one hand, it seems like the responsible thing to do; on the other, it could hurt its bottom line. Remember that next time OpenAI and Sam Altman throw sand in your eyes with “our goal is to empower and serve humanity” or whatever they try to sell you. If they believed what they preach, the choice would’ve been obvious.
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Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught
#15Remember when GPT was "too dangerous" to release into the world and unless you were twitter-famous you had to apply and wait for months to even get access? Times sure have changed
I remember when GPT-2 was "too dangerous" to release. I am confused why people still take these clown claims seriously.
GPT-2 was never too dangerous to release, that's made up. OpenAI were trying to set a precedent to delay releases in anticipation of more dangerous models. This was and remains a good thing.
Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught
#16Why not post the original article that The Verge has basically summarised?
https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/openai-tool-chatgpt-cheating-wri...
Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught
#17> On one hand, it seems like the responsible thing to do; on the other, it could hurt its bottom line. Remember that next time OpenAI and Sam Altman throw sand in your eyes with “our goal is to empower and serve humanity” or whatever they try to sell you. If they believed what they preach, the choice would’ve been obvious.
Yeah. Okay. Sure. How do you feel about community-developed / open-source models that’ll certainly do the same thing citing “freedom” and “choice” as the justification. If people are just salty about OpenAI and want to buy into the Sam Bad culture war then so be it, but trying to make sense of this contradictory backwards-engineered justification is tiring.
> How do you feel about community-developed / open-source models that’ll certainly do the same thing citing “freedom” and “choice” as the justification.
Bullshit rationalisations are bullshit no matter who they come from. Being open-source doesn’t excuse you from it.
> If people are just salty about OpenAI and want to buy into the Sam Bad culture war then so be it
Your mistake is assuming to know why someone you’ve never met has an opinion about something and immediately thinking the worst of it, instead of understanding individuals can think and form opinions for themselves.
I was criticising Sam Altman for his Worldcoin crypto scam way before OpenAI was a worldwide phenomenon.
https://www.technologyreview.com/2022/04/06/1048981/worldcoi...
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/richardnieva/worldcoin-...
Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught
#18We solved this with a simple but novel solution that is doesn't break with rewording/paraphrasing. The problem we've run into is that teachers don't want to have the hard conversation when they get the evidence of cheating. And school leadership don't want to fix the issue, they want to put a chatbot on their resume. Sadly, I don't think OpenAI releasing this would have any effect fixing the problem. It's a problem w…
It's a problem with the people in education.
Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught
#19Remember when GPT was "too dangerous" to release into the world and unless you were twitter-famous you had to apply and wait for months to even get access? Times sure have changed
Did people say GPT from OpenAI was too dangerous to release?
Or was it the fact that OpenAI has demonstrated how good LLMs can get and that bad actors can train their own, uncensored, unaligned LLMS to do "dangerous" things?
Re: OpenAI won't watermark ChatGPT text because its users could get caught
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
I remember when GPT-2 was "too dangerous" to release. I am confused why people still take these clown claims seriously.
GPT-2 was never too dangerous to release, that's made up. OpenAI were trying to set a precedent to delay releases in anticipation of more dangerous models. This was and remains a good thing.
Not sure about remains. The Llama is out of the bag with that one! OpenAI models aren't the best all-round anymore - there are plenty of faster models to choose from. Claude seems faster. Groq is stupid fast in serving Llama. gpt4 still has the smarts edge, but it isn't much of an edge any longer. OpenAI is iPhone, it is 2019 and people are realizing the Androids are better value and just as good