What I learned about a plastic-free life • Hacker News Board

Re: What I learned about a plastic-free life

#81

Post by jillesvangurp » Mon, Aug 05, 2024, 8:47 AM UTC

SECProto wrote: post #20

jillesvangurp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cardboard and glass packaging used to be a lot more common. The key to reducing to use of plastic is fiddling with the economics. It's cheap for companies to use plastic as long as they don't have to worry about cleanup or recycling. As soon as you start charging them for the privilege of mass polluting our world with their cost savings, they can adapt pretty rapidly. In the Netherlands, there are some discussions ab…

Note that cardboard for liquid packaging often has a plastic lining, aluminum cans have plastic/epoxy lining, glass containers have plastic seals in the lids, etc.

This is true. But it's worth noting that in terms of mass, it's a lot less than regular plastic packaging as these are very thin coatings. But you are right that this is not a perfect solution. I'm guessing there might be some biodegradable alternatives though for some of these things.

At least cans are being recycled in parts of Europe now. You pay a little deposit when you buy cans of beer/soda and you get that back when you return it. I'm guessing the plastic just burns off when they melt the metal. Even regular cans without a deposit that go in the trash are being separated out probably and recycled.

Re: What I learned about a plastic-free life

#82

Post by strogonoff » Mon, Aug 05, 2024, 11:55 AM UTC

diffeomorphism wrote: post #80

strogonoff wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead it is very energy intensive to produce and transport, much more so than plastic. Have you checked how much energy it takes to produce plastic? You can start with sourcing and refining oil. Economies of scale help it be cheaper, but so they would for glass. Have you checked recyclability of plastic? It can only be recycled a few times, and it degrades every time becoming unsuitable for use in, say, food pack…

> have you checked Yes, and plastic wins: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230427-glass-or-plastic...

Did you read it? I did, in fact I remember encountering it back when it was originally published.

Article’s conclusion is that glass “may be equally as detrimental to the environment as plastic”, not “plastic wins”.

Their primary sources are something about regulation-violating mining of silica in India, and a UK paper that seems to claim glass may be more harmful because it takes more energy to produce and recycle (their “environmental impact” includes “potential to deplete fossil fuels”, I suppose they didn’t consider that green energy can be used). Funnily enough, even by such standards the UK paper admits on page 59 that glass bottles would be less harmful than plastic if they were reused (which single-use plastic bottles simply can’t be) in addition to being recycled.

Re: What I learned about a plastic-free life

#83

Post by MVissers » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 3:50 AM UTC

userbinator wrote: post #25

MVissers wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is- We’re only now starting to realize how bad plastics really are, because we only recently acquired the tech to measure this. Unexplained fertility decline in the last 40 years? Probably plastic. They found that humans had 3x higher concentration of plastics in their testicles than their pet dogs, and that pet-dogs have a dose-dependent reduction in viable sperm count inversely correlated with the plastic con…

Unexplained fertility decline in the last 40 years? The most common plastics have been in wide use for nearly a century. It's not "unexplained"; the fetility decline is a product of many variables that include diet and lifestyle changes, and especially as it correlates with population growth, this could be another feedback loop. Pointing to one of the most widespread materials which have been in use for much longer i…

Humans and pet dogs: https://academic.oup.com/toxsci/article-abstract/200/2/235/7...

Fear mongering?

Most renowned medical journal would disagree my friend: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2309822

4-5 times more chance to have another heart infarction in the next year.

Paper on decreased sperm count over time in the west (prob many reasons, plastic could be one) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6455044/

These things are very bad. We're just starting to learn HOW bad they are.

Re: What I learned about a plastic-free life

#84

Post by MVissers » Tue, Aug 06, 2024, 3:52 AM UTC

TiredOfLife wrote: post #66

MVissers wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is- We’re only now starting to realize how bad plastics really are, because we only recently acquired the tech to measure this. Unexplained fertility decline in the last 40 years? Probably plastic. They found that humans had 3x higher concentration of plastics in their testicles than their pet dogs, and that pet-dogs have a dose-dependent reduction in viable sperm count inversely correlated with the plastic con…

>Unexplained fertility decline in the last 40 years? That's why human population has nearly doubled in last 40 years?

No, look at this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6455044/

Decreased sperm count in the west. Could be due to a variety of factors.

But tie it together to microplastics: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38745431/

And you got an interesting result.