Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 102 posts

Re: Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

#71

Post by leogao »

manmal wrote: post #69
dralley wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The handful of times I've had ulcers in the past it was certainly correlated with stress. Perhaps indirectly through some other effects, but stress feels like part of the equation IME, at least for some people.

You likely have chronic heliobacter pylori infection and should really look into that. It’s a silent killer and that way beyond just ulcers since it’s a potent acetaldehyde producing microbe. Tests are often false negative because they can hide in places, eg Candida vacuoles: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8101746/

Is there a better test than the one that is normally prescribed, to distinguish the false positive cases you describe?

Re: Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

#72

Post by cladopa »

tombert wrote: post #29
phaedrus wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have IBS. During my last visit, my GI doctor apropos of nothing blurted out, "you've got to get your anxiety under control!" "What are you talking about?" I asked. "You said the stress of getting ready to leave for the office triggers your attacks," he said. "I work from home!!" I said. "_YOU_ posed a hypothetical and I answered with a hypothetical: that it would certainly be stressful if that happened. I also said…

Yeah, that's my issue; stress is a somewhat nebulous thing that's hard to directly quantify and therefore it can be a kind of "catch all" for nearly anything. I'm not saying that stress doesn't have effects, but I think a diagnosis based on "stress" can often be reductive; who doesn't feel some stress throughout the day?

Actually, "stress" is extremely easy to measure: You have stress, you have specific hormones in your bloodstream.

Those hormones change things in your body, like redirect the blood in your body contracting or extending blood vessels.

>who doesn't feel some stress throughout the day?

It is a quantity thing, you can feel stressed during seconds, or during hours or during entire days.

For example, in a war when your family members could die at any moment, you feel stress for days. In you live in peace you just don't have an idea what that means.

I have not lived war myself but I had close contact with people in Ukraine and in the past conflicts like Congo or Central Africa Republic and other African wars.

Stress effects were obvious for people living in farms. Animals like hens can stop laying eggs or cows stop giving milk just by stress alone.

Re: Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

#73

Post by amluto »

vjk800 wrote: post #23

I'm still waiting for a similar discovery to treat GERD. Having the condition, I've become a bit of a couch expert on GERD literature and it seems that everyone and their dog have a completely different opinion on what, in the end, causes it.

This paper was entertaining at least:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9106553/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36059247

Re: Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

#74

Post by AlbertCory »

There is little, if any, penalty for being wrong. There's a substantial penalty for being right.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robin-Warren

> It defied the conventional wisdom that bacteria could not survive in the highly acidic environment of the stomach, and many scientists dismissed his reports.

There is some point in the process where those "many scientists" should have been prevented from doing any further peer reviews, at the very least. If you always say No, your opinion has no value.

Re: Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

#75

Post by bsf_ »

bookofjoe wrote: post #59
yongjik wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to an ear doctor recently, who was so old that I think he graduated when I was a toddler. But when I describe my symptom he says "Well, let's also see what ChatGPT says." So some part of new medical information might spread faster than I had thought. * My ear problem turned out to be that my ear canal was full of wax. I guess we didn't really need ChatGPT that day.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Unless things have changed fundamentally since I was in medical school (UCLA Class of 1974), a doctor's visit should start with taking a history and move on to a physical examination. I would think ChatGPT wouldn't even have been mentioned once your PE revealed a wax-filled external ear canal.

Thank you so much for making the parent poster's point so clear!

Re: Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

#76

Post by Cupertino95014 »

dekhn wrote: post #47

This is one of those situations where the narrative is fairly simple: people believed X, it was wrong, a few iconoclasts demonstrated in a fairly convincing way that Y was indeed the case, and then over time, the story got rewritten in the literature. But in practice it turned out to be more complicated than the narrative; X is still somewhat true and ulcers and gastric disorders are both caused by, and affected by,…

> I've learned that you sort of have to sneak up new information to them without making them feel challenged by a non-expert

that might apply to you (depending on your background), but Warren had some serious credentials. Doctors are supposed to stay current on work like his.

Re: Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

#77

Post by odyssey7 »

tombert wrote: post #13

I got an ulcer about ten years ago, well after Warren's research, I went to a doctor and he told me that the ulcer was caused by stress. I said something like "didn't someone get a Nobel prize proving that ulcers were bacterial?" and the doctor hadn't heard that and "prescribed" me to get more rest and try and be less concerned about work. I got a different doctor after that. Robin Warren is someone who I respected t…

What do you call the person who graduated last in their medical school class?

“Doctor”

Re: Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

#78

Post by Buttons840 »

codesnik wrote: post #54
dekhn wrote: post #47

This is one of those situations where the narrative is fairly simple: people believed X, it was wrong, a few iconoclasts demonstrated in a fairly convincing way that Y was indeed the case, and then over time, the story got rewritten in the literature. But in practice it turned out to be more complicated than the narrative; X is still somewhat true and ulcers and gastric disorders are both caused by, and affected by,…

Huh. Could you tell more on ways of sneaking up information to them? I personally am so undiplomatic I have hard time even to imagine, how to do it.

I've sometimes noticed myself giving ideas in passing during a friendly conversation where nobody is defensive, my idea is passed over initially, but some days later the person has the same idea and doesn't remember that I suggested it. This might be some kind of bias on my part though.

Point being: Offer your idea during a friendly time where it will not cause the other person to be defensive and then you have to wait. You might find that the next time you bring it up the person is more receptive.

Re: Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

#79

Post by don_neufeld »

I still remember the sound of my doctor’s voice when he looked through the endoscope as 20 yr old me laid on the table.

“Man, we find your problem”

Fortunately, the Canadian medical system knew about Dr Warren’s work and so I was properly treated with antibiotics and completely cleared up in 2 weeks, never had a recurrence.

I owe that guy a lot, I’ve heard many horror stories about ulcer treatments since then, it’s shocking this isn’t known by literally 100% of doctors (of all specialties)

Re: Robin Warren, pathologist who rewrote the science on ulcers, has died

#80

Post by jiggawatts »

don_neufeld wrote: post #79

I still remember the sound of my doctor’s voice when he looked through the endoscope as 20 yr old me laid on the table. “Man, we find your problem” Fortunately, the Canadian medical system knew about Dr Warren’s work and so I was properly treated with antibiotics and completely cleared up in 2 weeks, never had a recurrence. I owe that guy a lot, I’ve heard many horror stories about ulcer treatments since then, it’s s…

Think about a field that you know, like software development or whatever.

Now say: “Surely by now everybody knows about SQL injection!”

Meanwhile it’s the third item in the OWASP top ten: https://owasp.org/Top10/A03_2021-Injection/

Now that you know how ignorant supposed experts can be in a highly paid intellectual profession, extrapolate to every other field of study and weep.

Post reply on HN